A woman has been found guilty of raping two women

That will most likely be Rhona Hotchkiss, a former Prison Governer, who has been crystal clear the danger all this poses to vulnerable female prisoners and said she would have resigned before making female wardens search male prisoners.

She's absolutely brilliant.

I'll just leave this here for you to marvel at...its all our fault you see...

"The first minister also stressed it was careful that people "do not, even inadvertently, suggest that trans women pose an inherent threat to women",

No, discussing this does not imply that every male who identifies as trans is a sexual offender.

"adding: "Predatory men, as has always been the case, are the risk to women."

And it cannot be denied that some predatory men are TW. The sincerity of a male person's identity is not important to the woman being preyed on. It makes no practical difference whatsoever if a male is or is not a TW during an assault.

It would be more accurate to say "predatory males" and leave gender identification out of it all together

Sturgeon on the BBC website: "The first minister also stressed it was careful that people "do not, even inadvertently, suggest that trans women pose an inherent threat to women", adding: "Predatory men, as has always been the case, are the risk to women."

So if someone with a penis rapes someone they must be a man. If they have a penis but have not raped anyone they could be a man or a woman.

Hmm. Not sure I follow

Anyone else fed up with hearing blokes giving their ‘opinions’ on the radio followed by ‘that was Ava from Southampton…’

Guardian staff currently scrabbling around try to work out how they can make this into a 'most vulnerable' story

100%.

Sugarfree23

That would be a start, I just don't think it will be sturgeon who stops it. The SNP already rejected an amendment which would put safeguards in place for when sex offenders apply for a GRC. While sturgeon is now using the fact that westminster made a section 35 order to bleat on about democracy, and devolution. I think leveraging the latter - look how mean westminster are to Scotland- matters more to her than women's safety.

I would on this occasion be happy to be proved wrong though

Perhaps he'll be there all by himself.

Genius solution! Cornton Vale is a women's prison. Move all the women to their new facilities and let the TW all go to CV, after all it's a woman's prison.

@PronounssheRa I just hope it blows a big hole in her GRR bill.
She can't exactly keep banging on that the English bad boys in Westminster stopped it now, can she?

If they phone Emily Thornberry I’m sure she could come up with some convoluted dribble for them.

Cornton Vale is closing. Here's an article about it

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/cornton-vale-womens-prison-final-28742585

These new units sound brilliant. No wonder men want to get in there. I'd be tempted to commit a crime in Scotland so I could have a stay.

All that planned for women and male criminals will be put there like someone has taken a massive shit in your scented hot tub.

PronounssheRa · Today 13:40

Guardian staff currently scrabbling around try to work out how they can make this into a 'most vulnerable' story

Hmm, that's probably the case, unfortunately.

more details soon

Guardian staff currently scrabbling around try to work out how they can make this into a 'most vulnerable' story

He hasn't gone anywhere yet and may remain, as the rest of the population are being transferred, as Cornton is being refurbished. Perhaps he'll be there all by himself.

She’s come across many TIMs who have “exposed their male genitalia” in prison and has never come across a TIM in a women’s prison who has had surgery. She said that until this prisoner actively threatens or assaults a women in prison, they will be allowed to associate with women.
She also pointed out that whilst Sturgeon has said this rapist will not stay in this prison, she has not said she will not go to another women’s prison.

This is really important. It's not clear what has happened or where this rapist has gone.

Blimey, even the Guardian has it:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4727323-a-woman-has-been-found-guilty-of-raping-two-women?page=24&reply=123400451

This is all they have to say, mind:

Isla Bryson, a transgender woman found guilty of raping two women before transitioning, will not be imprisoned in Scotland’s all-female Cornton Vale prison, Nicola Sturgeon has told the Scottish parliament. More details soon …

Cautiously good news.

Don't be fooled though this is just one case, sturgeon and SNP policy would have allowed him to stay in the female estate if it hadnt been for the extreme pressure put on her.

there have been cases like this in the past and will be again in the future. I'm also thinking beyond prisons for example NHS policies on same 'gender' wards and how this man could demand access to women's wards.

Sugarfree23 · Today 12:37

Nicola has been forced into that move. She couldn't exactly defend him could she.

Yes, she's finally realised that she con no longer defend the indefensible. I mean, she wouldn't want to lose any votes, would she? And this being front page news couldn't have come at a better time, with the GRR madness in Holyrood.

And he looks like a right fucking thug too

The tide is turning, the sunlight is coming in and the rose tinted glasses are coming off. New ears have been opened to this. People have been outraged this week, many will have paid no mind to the trans debate prior to Bryson. I think this will open the floodgates now for more MPs and prominent figures to be able to stand up and say what they really think about TWAW, without the use of word salad and doing a metaphorical 100 mile detour around the questions and discussions.

R4 has just been talking to a women’s prison governor called Rhona. She was spectacular

She’s come across many TIMs who have “exposed their male genitalia” in prison and has never come across a TIM in a women’s prison who has had surgery. She said that until this prisoner actively threatens or assaults a women in prison, they will be allowed to associate with women.
She also pointed out that whilst Sturgeon has said this rapist will not stay in this prison, she has not said she will not go to another women’s prison.

Deputy Chief Constable Malcolm Graham in 2021 said it was vanishingly unlikely www.thetimes.co.uk/article/650a936e-5dc5-11ec-b820-c24889bc184b?shareToken=fd1cb23014069bfc2f6f43e7bf06f135

Deputy Chief Constable Malcolm Graham insisted that Police Scotland had yet to decide how it would respond to a rape suspect with male genitalia asking to be recognised as a woman.

“We have had 1,229 rapes reported to us in the first six months of this year,” he said. “Nearly seven rapes reported every day and there has never been a set of circumstances we have had to do what you have suggested, where we would have somebody who has committed a rape who was biologically a man self-identifying as a woman.

Yes you’re right. This whole saga has unveiled this farce for what it really is. As I said the other day, I think that what has made more people take notice this time is the fact that Bryson looks so masculine. The tattoos, the physique - there is no getting away from the fact that Bryson is a male in female clothing. This was rightly picked up by mainstream media as it was so farcical and the result has been NS and her cronies getting an absolute dressing down and NS backpedaling at the speed of light.

As you say, this is just proof that these policies and proposals do not work. They are not fit for purpose and ultimately NS has had to give in and more or less agree that a male wearing womens clothing is still a male, and therefore still a threat in womens spaces. And the crux of this is, NS cannot have it all. She either agrees with self ID or she doesn’t. She can’t step in every time someone looks a bit too masculine to be taken seriously as a woman. So either transwomen are ALL women, or they’re not really women at all.

It’s a good point Sugarfree. I’m with KJK on this - I don’t care if you’ve called yourself Marjorie for 100 years and you wear your testicles as earrings, you shouldn’t be in a women’s prison. I can’t remember the exact quote but it’s close enough.