Righto...

Sorry in the NHS's own literature (about barriers to accessibility)

So it should be no issue for a transman to see a poster aimed at women reminding them to go for their smears, because the transmen will be the most educated of all women in the female and male bodies and will therefore automatically know the poster saying woman is directed at them

🙄🙄

So for women it's absolutely imperative to be driven by the guidance and look into the reasons for barriers to cervical smear uptake, but for trans men, despite them being explicitly listed under the accessibility section in their own literature, it's okay for us to just make assumptions on their behalf and exclude them.

Did it ever occur to you for one second that education is not the only factor at play here, do you think representation and destigmatisation might be important too? Ever cross your mind that perhaps a trans man who presents very masculine might be nervous about attending a GUM clinic to get a smear with a load of women?

And if someone of either sex hates their body that much they want to be the other sex you would assume that that group would be the most educated of all groups as to the actual internal processess and organs that are different in the two.

Because you wouldn't just change from woman to man without having a clue what the differences between the two are would you?

So it should be no issue for a transman to see a poster aimed at women reminding them to go for their smears, because the transmen will be the most educated of all women in the female and male bodies and will therefore automatically know the poster saying woman is directed at them.

Go and look at their Twitter and tell me it's the same that their website has one page dedicated to trans women rather than every single damn comms made 'inclusive'.

twitter.com/ProstateUK?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

If 'most women' know about smears then trans men also know about them.

Except they don't. Because some women are kept ignorant of the English language, or of the language of bodies.

If you have Twitter (I don't, I just googled for comparison. Take a look at what say, Prostate Cancer UK have to say. Seems it's A-OK to use men when we mean men, it's only the word woman that is so confusing we have to use invented terms in order to be 'inclusive'.

Don’t be daft. We all know who gets prostate cancer and we all know who gets cervical cancer.

messaging should be clear

and if people are unclear as to what sex they are then this messaging should be clear as well

but much more importantly is that 40% of women don’t know they have a cervix.

say the word women. It’s not a dirty word. In the messaging to women

prostatecanceruk.org/

The post with my confusion about "everyone having a prostate and cervix"is above. I'm on this board representing the young women who believed as I did till I had my first child. Came to mn for the pregnancy board and stayed for the sex Ed. Not everyone starts out super feminist.

prostatecanceruk.org/prostate-information/are-you-at-risk/trans-women-and-prostate-cancer

Och it’s just nonesense prostate cancer charities have always and continue to be clear on who they target.

men

they don’t fanny about with the nonesene women are expected to have to endure

Why exactly? You're posting on the feminism boards, you obviously know what the word female means. And as others not so biased have pointed out, there are more campaigns from the same organisation so how exactly does one of 3 posters being aimed at trans men have a detrimental effect on you?

I am one of the women it would have had a detrimental effect on.

This is a contradiction though, because you've got mad about it without any reason to believe it has a detrimental effect on women.

As you've said to me, just because you feel something is the case doesn't make it so.

Donna with the baby is in the news stories too. Woman front and centre in this messaging.

www.itv.com/news/channel/2022-01-05/jersey-mum-who-says-a-smear-test-saved-her-life-urges-others-to-get-checked

Something "feels" true, doesn't make it true. No one here is campaigning against healthcare messaging for transmen. But we will never fail to point out when it starts have a detrimental effect on women.

Yes. Woman is easier to understand than female. So much evidence.
But think about a baby developmentally. You know full well that it would understand woman long before it understands female.
Think about a language program to aid communication e.g. Makaton. 'Woman' occurs in the second stage (very early) 'female' not at all in the core vocabulary. The vocab is arranged in order of usefulness importance and simplicity.

All 3 posters have been tweeted by the Government of Jersey. First Donna with the baby, then Vic with the 'tache, then Lucy with the weights. Vic has certainly been amplified the most. Not in a positive way.

it doesn't feel like they're welcome beside you to be honest, but yes if your issue is with the fact that they used the word female instead of woman then maybe you should contact them.

Of course no one has directly stated that they don't want trans men represented, but it sure does feel like it when some people go out of their way to come up with reasons why it's wrong that they are represented, which is the implication when you claim without evidence that other demographics aren't represented so it's unfair. Because it obviously comes across as a sought justification for not wanting the trans man poster about.

This is ridiculous now. I'm not in your gum clinic. I'm looking at 3 posters covering cervical screening. I'm using my past experience which has led to believing all people had prostate and cervix simultaneously to evaluate these 3 posters and they would not have helped. 2 transmen won't have looked so it's OK for way more women to ignore posters? no, it's not.

Also it’s worth noting that the automatic recall system for smears will base your invitation to cervical screening on your GP having your sex recorded as ‘female’ unless you have applied to be removed from it, such as a woman who has decided she doesn’t want screening, or a woman who has had a full hysterectomy. If a trans man has asked for the GP surgery to record him as ‘male’, he will be missed from recall as the computer system can’t distinguish between ‘male’ and ‘trans man’. That’s why posters like this exist.

I’m going to leave the thread now as I’ve said all I wanted to say.

As demonstrated by someone who actually works in this field, there is targeted advertisement directly to these women.

So what relevance does this have to the fact that trans men also, in addition to this, have representation?

My point is your assertion that trans men are being prioritised at the direct expense of other vulnerable demographics of women is demonstrably wrong.

It's not about "women not being listened to".

It's about you, an individual, making unsubstantiated claims in order to justify being angry about a poster that has trans representation on it when in your view only women should be represented.

All of this side stepping, what about this what about that, is just obfuscation of that point.

Ah I see, this is one of those times when women won't be listened to unless they produce enough evidence, peer reviewed, from the right sources all pre agreed before hand to pass the test.

Pop into an NHS meeting about this and people will go through it in depth. We're not just talking about people with highly significant need who will have carers who will support access, we're talking about the many women in the population who's reading isn't a strong point, who speak English as a second language. These are familiar issues to anyone actually familiar with women and health care as opposed to looking at it all from a highly theoretical point of view.

I’ve treated two trans men in the last year, both of whom were pre-op and having vaginal sex. Neither of them denied that they had a cervix, but both would probably have ignored a poster ‘for women’ because they don’t think of themselves as women. That’s why they might need something like this poster, as it resonates with them. Like I said, if it saves just one life.

You harp on about accessibility; why does their access not matter as much as yours or another woman’s?