The key piece of clothing is a bra

no man needs a bra

i’ve got no problem with men who prefer dresses to trousers, I feel the same way

but if he’s wearing a bra, we all know what’s going on

As little as six years ago it was generally accepted that some men cross dressed for sexual thrills. It was a known paraphilia and psychologists were clear that a man who has one paraphilia is likely to have others.

Transsexuals were a distinct and much smaller group. They were usually portrayed as men who had such crippling dysphoria that they had to remove their male body parts.

Both groups were merged so suddenly that a lot of the general public still assumes that all transwomen have had surgery. But when surveys ask if we want to share women-only spaces with in-tact transwomen, the answer is usually no.

All we need is sunlight.

Just a daily reminder that:

'Autogynephilia, the feeling of sexual arousal some men feel as they pretend to be women, is according to some researchers behind many or even most cases of gender dysphoria among those born as men.'

Brilliant real article. Thank you writing this. Along with Janice Turner and Hadley we have some recent spot on journalism. I've forwarded some of these articles on to family as they articulate everything I want to say.

Also, when did we forget that many men get a sexual thrill from wearing women's clothes?! We've always known this surely?

Phone them up and say you’re cancelling because you can’t afford it. They usually either offer another deal or extend your current one.

Do you think we’re allowed to say yet that for late transitioning males it’s a fetish?

I think they are one of the places that extends the offer if you say you're going to cancel. I'm sure DH did it last month.

Was it the Telegraph that hosted that creepy guy’s column of his transition journey? Lots of enjoyment of his pert young budding breasts IIRC.

Maybe this is their remorse showing. Whatever, it’s refreshing to have the unsayable said.

I am enjoying this thread soooooooo much!!!!!

Can you tell

Even my smilies are super happy

😁😜

Thank you for this thread!

I've got a four month subscription to the telegraph on a special £6.50pm deal but I can't cancel next month when it's up, they have 2/3/4 important articles on this several days a week. I already pay £26 for my Times sub but I will go without something else to fund proper investigative journalism (I will never leave the Times whilst Janice is there)

It can help though, when speaking to people new to the whole row. This way they can still Be Kind in their minds while it’s being explained to them that this aspect of the debate is about safeguarding from predatory men, and then work out the rest later.

Since men who aren't transwomen are a known threat to women and girls, as evidenced by crime statistics of sexual offences (at least 95% of which are committed by men) and since we know that transwomen retain the same patterns of offending as males, why is it so unthinkable that a transwoman would be a pervert against whom women and girls might want to take defensive precautions? If you see a gun, do you automatically assume it's one of the good guys with a gun or are you a bit careful until you find out one way or the other? Ditto with possessors of a penis.

DarkDayforMN · Today 16:34

Re: why the trope, always announced in debates, that of course no genuine transwomen would ever be a threat to any women or children - the problem is only male sexual predators who might pretend to be trans to gain access to them?

I think that it's because it used to be common knowledge that cross-dressing is a paraphilia for some men, and that paraphiliacs are often dangerous to women. But there's been a very successful propaganda campaign to rebrand that truth as a bigoted stereotype, so it's become blasphemous against the dominant corporate/state religion to say it. Even us nonbelievers have to do little rituals to avoid getting in trouble for blasphemy.

So you have to pretend that it's absolutely unthinkable that a transwoman would be a pervert. Even though clearly some of them are.

I think you must be right that it is now a precautionary ritual. I suppose is just as well to be exaggeratedly careful.

This paragraph you mean

It is how nobody stops to ask how many such men are moved to act in these ways through their own sexual desire. Autogynephilia, the feeling of sexual arousal some men feel as they pretend to be women, is according to some researchers behind many or even most cases of gender dysphoria among those born as men.It is legitimate to ask whether non-consenting women ought to be participants in such sexual fantasies.

The quoted paragraph should be placed on every Stonewall stoners HR desk when they are deciding what to call the women's toilets and what pronouns should be used. Same for prison governors, sports organisations and schools. Have I omitted anything or anywhere else for this iconic paragraph?

Anyone know where and how to contact the hero journalist?

This thread has caused much hilarity and rejoicing here. I can visualise an art work using the ticker tape idea electronically in all the art galleries of the world.

I find myself agreeing with him

Me too. Funnily enough 😁

I've just been reading the comments to the article. It's not just us six women who see this anyone

One gentleman wrote this

This is absurd. There are five groups here.

One is person with 'gender dysmorphia', defined by the NHS as a mental condition needing professional treatment from qualified doctors. Not from amateur therapists in clinics pushing hormones and genital surgery.

Second are the attention seekers who exploit this for sexual gratification.

Third are naive young who are confused and exploited by the adults, with many being autistic.

Fourth are the people weaponising this into a political issue, such as the SNP and Labour. They offer extreme political solutions so if any common sense conservative with a small 'c' challenges them, they can smear them as 'Tory Nazi fascist scum'.

Fifth are the people making money from exploiting young people and confusing them.

This is a medical matter. Not a political weapon.

Protect young people and safeguard women from predatory men becoming 'trans' to get access to female safe places.

Protect vulnerable people for being exploited for money by so called 'experts' who have no medical qualifications.

Protect female sport. It is blatantly absurd for 6'6'' men to suddenly be competing with girls, no matter how they 'feel' or how their testosterone is measured.

I find myself agreeing with him

Exactly. Off-topic, but same applies to cheating in sport.

"Ooh, how dare you suggest they would go through all that (all what?) just to get an advantage in the women's category!"

People who play sport are competitive. Competitive people cheat sometimes.

I think that a lot of men came late to this issue as they did not think it affected them so they weren’t interested. They are here now, which is good. Turning this hope thing around is going to need everyone we can get.

I've just read the entire article in the opening post without having to sign up or go to an archive site. I can read the comments too, I don't think that has happened for about 10 years.

you're right Datun, it's good that the news that

Autogynephilia, the feeling of sexual arousal some men feel as they pretend to be women, is according to some researchers behind many or even most cases of gender dysphoria among those born as men. It is legitimate to ask whether non-consenting women ought to be participants in such sexual fantasies.

As a legitimate thing that has been worrying us for some time now Is getting some sunlight finally

That would be great, I really think the point you've quoted can't be emphasised enough.