Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Missive from a London local authority to its employees

34 replies

NeeshyOne · 22/01/2023 11:05

We are all aware of how damaging it can be for individuals to be misgendered. Misgendering can damage someone’s self-confidence as well as having an impact on an individual’s mental health.
Getting someone’s pronoun right promotes inclusivity and helps all people feel seen and recognised.
As part of our council wide drive to equality we have been considering how we can best minute our formal meetings.

We will review this to see how its working but we will try to apply the right pronouns and when we are not aware of this will either use neutral pronouns, job titles or full names. We will not assume pronouns from appearance.

Lots of us have started to sign off our emails with our pronouns and wear badges which is obviously helpful. However this is not universal and a matter of personal choice. I would however be grateful if you could drop me a note letting me know your pronouns. We will hold this data securely and for this purpose only. This is obviously not compulsory but as explained without this we will use neutral terms, jobs titles or full names. Which we choose will sometimes depend on the grammar (clarity remains a primary driver for us) but we will look to ensure we properly reflect in particular contributions by women.

I attach a guide (from Stonewall) to pronouns generally and changing your email signatures.

END

I work with this LA, not for them. But I am seriously pissed off with it, especially the continued use of Stonewall as some sort of benchmark for best practice, rather than a politicised lobbying group pushing an ideology. Is there any point in challenging it? How?

OP posts:
Twicebakedroastpotatoes · 22/01/2023 11:35

What they seem to be saying is that if you don’t comply and supply your pronouns you’ll be referred to henceforth as they. Banking on women being so irritated by this - for one thing, people might assume you to be a navel gazing non binary bore if you have they pronouns - that they will then supply the correct pronouns if she/her. Then they’re on your file and you’re seen to be complying and colluding with the nonsense.

Essentially, either comply or we will deliberately apply the wrong pronouns when speaking about you, potentially leading people to assume you are non binary which will lead to further assumptions about the kind of person they’re dealing with.

Appalling and needs to be challenged.

Helleofabore · 22/01/2023 11:28

It is significant that an email that is supposedly to assist some people now carries coercive pressure for other people.

This is a mess. It has been poorly handled from the start. Tantrums and emotional outpourings should never have been allowed to be converted into people fearing losing their jobs over misgendering. The blame is not solely Stonewall’s but they have certainly largely contributed to it.

Abccde · 22/01/2023 11:27

Use names them and remove pronouns altogether?

I don't actually care if I were called he. It doesn't change who or what I am.

NecessaryScene · 22/01/2023 11:25

We are all aware of how damaging it can be for individuals to be misgendered.

So many horror stories, to channel another thread...

ApocalipstickNow · 22/01/2023 11:23

How is it helpful?

Is there any evidence to back this up?

Is there a market for pronoun bumper stickers I could get in on?

Theunamedcat · 22/01/2023 11:22

CrikeyO · 22/01/2023 11:20

I’m so pleased that the LA in question seems to have managed to complete all its outstanding work relating to issues like digital exclusion, CQC improvements, Ofsted, housing overcrowding, and so on and so on. It’s great to hear of a LA that has run out of serious and urgent issues to address, which is presumably why they are diverting resource to the rather less pressing issue of pronouns in internal meetings.

I do hope the LA will be sharing its secrets of success with the Local Government Association and DLUHC, so that all other councils in the country can make sure they’re just as effective and efficient at service delivery and meeting resident and business need.

And then, when everyone involved in local authority work in the country has run out of urgent things to do, they’ll be able to memorise everyone’s individual pronouns.

Absolutely this

CrikeyO · 22/01/2023 11:20

I’m so pleased that the LA in question seems to have managed to complete all its outstanding work relating to issues like digital exclusion, CQC improvements, Ofsted, housing overcrowding, and so on and so on. It’s great to hear of a LA that has run out of serious and urgent issues to address, which is presumably why they are diverting resource to the rather less pressing issue of pronouns in internal meetings.

I do hope the LA will be sharing its secrets of success with the Local Government Association and DLUHC, so that all other councils in the country can make sure they’re just as effective and efficient at service delivery and meeting resident and business need.

And then, when everyone involved in local authority work in the country has run out of urgent things to do, they’ll be able to memorise everyone’s individual pronouns.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/01/2023 11:11

We are all aware of how damaging it can be for individuals to be misgendered.

Are we?

nilsmousehammer · 22/01/2023 11:09

There is a throwaway mention of it being 'a matter of choice' which suggests they are aware they're in danger of trampling right to belief and showing their prejudices, but I would be pointing out the chilling effect and pressuring effect of requiring this, and that all beliefs are equal before the law.

And that at this point openly following Stonewall's advice is taking a rather large risk.