Missive from a London local authority to its employees

Well that’s clear as mud isn’t it.

If push comes to shove and you have to give them i have the perfect pronouns for you

supercalifragilistic/Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

I wonder why being misgendered or deadnamed is assumed to be so damaging and horrible. I understand that it is rude if done on purpose by someone knowing that the person doesn't want that name or those pronouns used, but why would its effect be so devastating?

If you know, deep inside, who you are, and if this identity is inherent and immutable, then why does it matter so much to receive external validation?

I am trying to relate this to something in my own experiences, such as what triggered my PTSD in the past when it wasn't yet treated (certain faces, smells, sounds). But surely the society isn't expected to change for my sake? So when can the society be expected to do that?

I would reply that you have no problem with being misgendered and therefore you have no preferred pronouns.

@JanesLittleGirl I know Right! I mean it's been a while for me but I figured my example above was still the standard.

Why would you use pronouns? Minutes is about actually recording who said what.And what needs doing.

You put their names at the start with their initials and you use the initials throughout so that no-one misses anything they need to do. And anything anyone says is attributed to the initials of the person who spoke.

Ain't ever seen a pronoun in a set of minutes. Action; owner; due date.

I used to hold many meetings, and did my own minutes as it was quicker.

Revise drainage layout third floor Action ITH by 1/2/23

Chase Building Control for next inspection date action FS by 19/1/23

It's not Fucking rocket science (although I'd bet in a meeting o f rocket scientists they probably do the same as me)🚀

Quite. I have a name that is obviously female to most Europeans but I work with people from all over the world. I get lots of emails addressed to Mr [my name]. I have not found this damaging or distressing.

"We will hold this data securely and for this purpose only." - so, only for use in the minutes of meetings?

But they aren't going to keep the resulting minutes secret, are they? So by circulating the minutes they will be telling everyone this 'secure' data.

It's almost as if they've not thought this through.

Maybe ask a few questions, e.g:

Thank you for your communication. I assume you are aware of the Forstater ruling?

In the light of the Forstater ruling, can you please explain how you propose to protect partners and members of staff who do not have a gender identity?

Can partners and staff who do not subscribe to gender identity beliefs request that their pronouns are recorded as being sex based?

Can you also reassure partners and staff that any request to record their pronouns as sex based will be treated without prejudice?

Etc

I'm confused - they want pronouns so that they can be included in the formal minutes of meetings - I've never seen or heard of any minutes that don't just refer to the participants by their name and job title at the start, and then by their initials in the actual minutes. Then they say "We will hold this data securely and for this purpose only." - so, only for use in the minutes of meetings? but then there is a load of guff about pronouns according to Stonewall, and lots of 'it's not compulsory, but let us know your pronouns anyway.'

Did a grown up compose that email?

@NeeshyOne
As well as mentioning Forstater, you could also point out that only 0.2-0.3% of the population of England and Wales considers themselves to have a gender identity at all. It's the belief system of a miniscule minority. Are they going to change their systems to take account of all the religions and belief systems in the country, as well as nonbelievers? Will people be encouraged to sign emails with allahukbar, or to wear crosses? Perhaps suggest that they can leave it to individuals to record/request pronouns and leave it up to other employees whether they comply. as that is fairer to all.

Who TF uses pronouns in formal minutes anyway?

LaviniasBigBloomers (LBB) stated the project to erase women's rights from the face of the planet was largely on track, but warned that those pesky MNers continued to be active. The risk register will be updated accordingly.

Pronoun free zone, innit?

Take two:
"Thank you for your communication regarding misgendering. In your eagerness to be inclusive of those who subscribe to the Gender Identity belief system, you seem to have overlooked those who have a different belief system. I am sure that you would not try to impose the same religious belief on all your staff so I am at a loss as to why you are trying to impose GI on all staff. You have described the system as "not compulsory" so I would be grateful if you would actually mean this, and allow an opt-out.

Please continue to use my sex-based pronouns. And please ensure that they are recorded as sex-based and not gender-based.
Kind regards, NeeshyOne."

It's damaging if you're sexist.

My kids are misgendered constantly but I'm teaching them not to be sexist so it's never a problem. Much of the time they don't bother to correct strangers.

No way I'm going to turn around now and say actually kids, we were wrong, it's damaging. The world needs less sexist people, not more.

Trans ideology really does require everyone to adhere to strict gender stereotypes to work.

Seeing as we're allowed to compel other people's speech nowadays I think the best thing is to opt out of pronouns completely and insist always being referred to by name.

Meeting minutes:
Jacqueline raised an issue with the latest data file whereby Jacqueline was unable access it. Jacqueline raised an IT ticket however Jacqueline needed a response before the end of the SLA so Jacqueline escalated the issue. IT provided Jacqueline with the file and Jacqueline will now review...

We are all aware of how damaging it can be for individuals to be misgendered.

Crikey, do they provide smelling salts at this LA? Let's hope none of the delicate flowers work in social services or have to have contact with a member of the public who's even mildly irate.

God I'm so sick of this bollocks.

I want sanity to return.

Is there any point in challenging it? How?
"Thank you for your communication regarding misgendering. As I am sure you are aware, following the Forstater ruling, Gender Identity is considered a belief system. I do not subscribe to this belief system so this communication does not apply to me.
Please continue to use my sex-based pronouns. And please ensure that they are recorded as sex-based and not gender-based.
Kind regards, NeeshyOne."

Every single LA is going to have a massive budget cut.
And yet they are wasting time on shit like this. The public will not be happy. They need to remember who they serve.

Not just that- they can tick a box that says they are supporting trans/non binary staff and get the inclusivity points that show them in a good light.

like work places putting up inspirational posters and ticking a “supporting mental health” box. It’s all bullshit.

we will look to ensure we properly reflect in particular contributions by women.

!!

Deeply perplexed by this - does no one have any brains there?

The easy way - which many organisations do - to avoid any of this is to use initials throughout - Names of those in attendance at beginning with (xx) initials in brackets after.

Would avoid offending everyone - instead of which t hey have chosen to offend women!!

They get everyone to declare their pronouns and can then tick a box to say 99% or whatever of staff are pronoun compliant and in agreement. I would deliberately ignore and let them use my name.

Hmm. I’ve just had a Google to see if there was any local authority in the country that had zero homelessness, zero childhood obesity, zero youth crime, and had reported having achieved full equality for disabled residents and workers, no gender pay gap, and so on. That would have satisfied my curiosity about which council could be prioritising pronouns.

But apparently - and I’m sure this will come as a total shock to everyone - there isn’t one. So it wouldn’t be unreasonable to think that the local authority in the OP might have something its staff could be doing other than recording pronouns.