Page 2 | “You don’t get to decide whether you’re transphobic or not and you don’t get to decide you’re an ally”

AuuYSC · 2023-01-22T07:37:56+00:00

Then who does? This was said to me by a transman when I said that buying a video game (hogwarts legacy) doesn’t define a persons morals and personal beliefs (because let’s face it, nothings really ethical unless you live off the grid completely) which of course was met with a stream of abuse and how I don’t care about trans lives. I pointed out that actually I do, I am gender critical and I don’t think JK Rowling is transphobic but I also appreciate that trans people do face danger and need protection and I also think they have a right to be who they want to be. I’m also part of the lgbtq community and donate to the local youth club (I’ll admit it’s not just the trans people who benefit from my donation but it helps the whole community). Am I wrong in thinking that the trans community are actually causing more harm to themselves with this game boycott because judging by the pre order sales (and the millions of people that visit HP world and theme parks and buys all the merch) that actually there isn’t a lot of people on their side and by telling people what they can and can’t do, saying they’re transphobic etc for simply buying a game or spending their money isn’t making the point they think it is? It just really made me think about what the end goal is here, do they really think being treat as the biological sex they identify with, will help them? Imagine if we all said okay trans men are men and trans women are women and we’ll treat them like such - trans men will be put into male prisons and wards (imagine how that’ll go), medical treatment will be restricted only to biological sex so if you’re a transman you can’t have smears because men don’t have a cervix etc obviously it’s absolutely ridiculous and won’t happen but I just don’t see the benefit of the whole “transwomen are women” stance, I think they sound be treat as trans people and we look at options for them like a third toilet option or a third sports category etc something that will benefit them without causing harm to biological men and women. Sorry I went onto a bit of a rant, I’ve never considered myself to be transphobic but I guess if it’s not something I can decide for myself then who knows.

StephanieSuperpowers · 22/01/2023 18:37

No, she needs to accept the righteous judgement of the right side of history, pipe down like a proper woman and be grateful for the opportunity to learn and grow

DerekFaker · 22/01/2023 18:30

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 22/01/2023 16:56

I genuinely donate to the local lqbtq youth club local to me and I’m going into a profession that helps trans people quite a lot but because I buy a game I’m transphobic?
For what it's worth, I'm a big Harry Potter fan and have been since the first book came out so get where you're coming from wanting to play the game - I still enjoy watching the films ( not read the books for ages though)
But then I see tweets asking *how do you sleep at night?" and her answering "I just look at my royalty cheques" and I can completely see why people feel the way they do too and don't want to contribute with any new sales.

Oh so she shouldn't stand up for herself?

Deadringer · 22/01/2023 17:41

Thesonglastslonger · 22/01/2023 17:02

There’s no point expecting irrational people full of hate to have a sensible conversation.

The people now shrieking “transphobe!” at everyone who refuses to obey them, have ancestors in their family tree who burned the most intelligent/vulnerable women in the village as witches.

Promise you.

Or the Spanish inquisition

DialSquare · 22/01/2023 17:16

rapist's = rapists

Thesonglastslonger · 22/01/2023 17:02

There’s no point expecting irrational people full of hate to have a sensible conversation.

The people now shrieking “transphobe!” at everyone who refuses to obey them, have ancestors in their family tree who burned the most intelligent/vulnerable women in the village as witches.

Promise you.

DialSquare · 22/01/2023 17:00

You don't just decide you are one, surely your actions/attitude shows whether you are or not?

And what do your actions and attitude show? You support an ideology that puts rapist's in prison with vulnerable women, promotes the sterilisation and lifetime medication of teenagers, males in female sport therefore reducing the opportunities for females in sport, the exclusion of vulnerable or religious women from female single sex spaces once they know they are no longer single sex, crimes being attributed to women that were committed by males etc.
What does that say about you?

Helleofabore · 22/01/2023 16:59

I do find the discussion around racism interesting considering some of the racist posts in the past on these threads by posters who are quick to point fingers of shame at regular posters though.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 22/01/2023 16:58

And to compare a trans persons struggle to the civil rights movement just demonstrates how utterly privileged these people really are.
Nobody has compared the two at all though.
They're completely separate.
Prejudice comes in several different forms though and that's what's being pointed out.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 22/01/2023 16:56

I genuinely donate to the local lqbtq youth club local to me and I’m going into a profession that helps trans people quite a lot but because I buy a game I’m transphobic?
For what it's worth, I'm a big Harry Potter fan and have been since the first book came out so get where you're coming from wanting to play the game - I still enjoy watching the films ( not read the books for ages though)
But then I see tweets asking *how do you sleep at night?" and her answering "I just look at my royalty cheques" and I can completely see why people feel the way they do too and don't want to contribute with any new sales.

Helleofabore · 22/01/2023 16:55

Runningoncoffeealone · 22/01/2023 16:26

@Helleofabore I'm not entirely sure who created it, but they do have a website alongside the app, and when I went to the contact page it led me to patreon, so I'm assuming it's publicly funded.

Thanks Running. That is interesting. It seems that someone has created a resource that is aimed at finding a solution that works for you and seems to respect the needs of others.

And by the sounds of it wants to remain anonymous.

Just some questions since you are so close to the issue. All of us have our own views on this, but what do you believe is driving this hatred? Have you seen this hatred develop over time and since when?

Boiledbeetle · 22/01/2023 16:49

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 22/01/2023 16:42

TRAs seem incapable of actually measuring whether someone is transphobic.

If I was labelled transphobic by a non-TRA, I'd be happy to enter a discussion to demonstrate I am not (I am gender critical). If I was labelled transphobic by a TRA I'd just shrug and walk away. There's no arguing with stupid.

I have an issue with being called transphobic as to why and how supporting women, including transmen, is transphobic. I m all for men doing what the hell they like, calling themselves what they like, and women can do the same. What neither sex can do is change sex. That has been the case since we existed as humans, otherwise we wouldn't still be here as we are.

Now if someone wants to called me misogynist-wanker-phobic then why yes.yes i am.

Original poster

AuuYSC · 22/01/2023 16:48

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 22/01/2023 16:22

Yes, that's what I took it as as well, and came to say that I can see where they're coming from.
Does anyone with any prejudiced views ever usually admit, or can even see, their own prejudices?
No.
You don't get to say " I'm not racist" as you might not even realise you are being You either are, or aren't. Your actions or attitude speaks.
Same scenario here and goes for being an ally too
You don't just decide you are one, surely your actions/attitude shows whether you are or not?

Show quote history

But how can words and actions mean anything when the goal post is constantly changing?

I genuinely donate to the local lqbtq youth club local to me and I’m going into a profession that helps trans people quite a lot but because I buy a game I’m transphobic?

If I don’t get to decide that I’m not transphobic then I don’t see how other people can decide that I am from buying a videogame.

I guess like PPs have said it’s a game that can’t be won.

OP posts:

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 22/01/2023 16:47

SidewaysOtter · 22/01/2023 08:07

Computer games are transphobic! Books are transphobic! Everything is transphobic! Transphobia for everyone!

The word ceases to have any meaning when it seems to translate as “transphobia is anything I don’t like because I'm trans and I perceive this viewpoint as “against me”…therefore it’s transphobic”.

Reminds me of a friend who thinks anyone who ever does anything she doesn’t like is “a narc”. And a similarly unhinged point of view.

God yes.

And to compare a trans persons struggle to the civil rights movement just demonstrates how utterly privileged these people really are.

DerekFaker · 22/01/2023 16:42

WeeBisom · 22/01/2023 07:58

During the cultural revolution in China, Mao gifted some students a basket of mangoes and declared they were holy fruit. People went nuts for the cult of the mango: prostrating themselves, holding them aloft reverentially, declaring the miracle curative properties of its flesh etc. This small town finally gets a mango and displays it in the town square. An old guy living in the town went to see the mango and said it wasn’t that impressive and it was just a fruit. He was lynched.

The point, of course, wasn’t the mango just like the point here isn’t really about a video game. It’s a bare display of naked power. Of course it doesn’t make you “transphobic” to play a game. It’s absurd to suggest that the “sins” of the creator can be transposed onto the consumer by passive consumption. What TRAs are doing here is a loyalty test. If you participate in this game in any way you are a transphobe. It doesn’t make sense, but it’s not meant to. It’s meant to make you unthinking and reflexive.

The thing is, if enough people shrug and say “okay I guess I’m transphobic” and play the game anyway then this shows the emperor has no clothes.

Excellent post. I wholeheartedly agree.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 22/01/2023 16:42

TRAs seem incapable of actually measuring whether someone is transphobic.

If I was labelled transphobic by a non-TRA, I'd be happy to enter a discussion to demonstrate I am not (I am gender critical). If I was labelled transphobic by a TRA I'd just shrug and walk away. There's no arguing with stupid.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 22/01/2023 16:40

Okay 😕 👍 keep showing yourself then

Boiledbeetle · 22/01/2023 16:39

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 22/01/2023 16:37

Yes, I think any signs like that are disgusting.
Why are you playing a game of whataboutery though?

Show quote history

Thought I'd try out your style of commenting.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 22/01/2023 16:37

Boiledbeetle · 22/01/2023 16:34

You get that works both ways @RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella , right? So decapitate terfs sign, raping the PM sign, the Eat Terfs and tories sign.
Can you point me to your posts about these signs where you say how awful they are as I seem to have missed them.

Thanks.

Show quote history

Yes, I think any signs like that are disgusting.
Why are you playing a game of whataboutery though?

Boiledbeetle · 22/01/2023 16:34

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 22/01/2023 16:22

Yes, that's what I took it as as well, and came to say that I can see where they're coming from.
Does anyone with any prejudiced views ever usually admit, or can even see, their own prejudices?
No.
You don't get to say " I'm not racist" as you might not even realise you are being You either are, or aren't. Your actions or attitude speaks.
Same scenario here and goes for being an ally too
You don't just decide you are one, surely your actions/attitude shows whether you are or not?

Show quote history

You get that works both ways @RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella , right? So decapitate terfs sign, raping the PM sign, the Eat Terfs and tories sign.
Can you point me to your posts about these signs where you say how awful they are as I seem to have missed them.

Thanks.

Yeahrightthen · 22/01/2023 16:32

romdowa · 22/01/2023 08:25

I just don't bother arguing with these people, I just agree, yes I'm a terf and yes I'm transphobic and yes I've pre ordered the game too. What can they say then? Its usually very little, you've taken the wind out of their sails.

This.

I don’t actually care.

Your problem OP is that you are trying to prostrate yourself on the altar of trans and it’s an ever-changing game depending on their whims and whatever/whoever they have decided is transphobic on that particular day.

it’s a game you can’t win so maybe don’t bother trying?

Runningoncoffeealone · 22/01/2023 16:26

@Helleofabore I'm not entirely sure who created it, but they do have a website alongside the app, and when I went to the contact page it led me to patreon, so I'm assuming it's publicly funded.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 22/01/2023 16:22

JenniferBarkley · 22/01/2023 07:50

Of course you don't get to decide if you're transphobic, your words and actions will demonstrate it one way or another.

Has the phrase "I'm not racist, but..." ever been followed by something that isn't racist? Not that I've ever heard anyway. You don't get to declare that you're not racist, you demonstrate it in the way you treat people. Any other prejudice is the same.

Yes, that's what I took it as as well, and came to say that I can see where they're coming from.
Does anyone with any prejudiced views ever usually admit, or can even see, their own prejudices?
No.
You don't get to say " I'm not racist" as you might not even realise you are being You either are, or aren't. Your actions or attitude speaks.
Same scenario here and goes for being an ally too
You don't just decide you are one, surely your actions/attitude shows whether you are or not?

PissedOffAmericanWoman · 22/01/2023 15:50

Boiledbeetle · 22/01/2023 15:29

Why does it not seem to occur to the frothing at the mouth activists that they are doing an awful disservice to their arguments.

I know I had a rant up page, but honestly, I am perfectly capable of supporting more than one group of people. Everyone should have a life that is free from discrimination and fear.

But every suggestion over the past few years, that the majority of transgender people would probably welcome, gender neutral spaces alongside single sex, finding a solution to the prisons that didn't put women at risk etc. Gets shot down under be kind and no debate.

At this point i imagine this would have all be done and dusted without anyone's existing rights getting trampled on.

But I swear the element of the activists that are winding the masses up to fever pitch are going to cause the whole thing to implode soon. And whilst we will get our rights back, and the laws and legislation will get sorted the main fall out will be in the genuine trans population that just want to go about their lives with as little fuss as possible I would imagine.

So who exactly are these activists supporting? It's not women obviously, But it's not the transgender population either. Which makes the frothing at the mouth lot a Mens Rights Movement. and the only people they want to help is men.

This whole time it's been classed as women against trans. It's not it's really women and transgender people against misogynist men.

There is three groups in this relationship.

They want everyone to be kind to them. But they can’t be bothered to be kind to women.

PissedOffAmericanWoman · 22/01/2023 15:43

Deadringer · 22/01/2023 15:14

I shared something on Facebook about JKR (about one of her books) and my dd accused me of being transphobic for supporting her. I asked her to find one transphobic quote by JKR, that is her saying anything hateful or even slightly dismissive of trans people. She couldn't find one of course.
On another Facebook post about JKR, a poster said and I quote, 'transwomen are literally being killed every day because of what JKR said'. Of course lots of people liked it and agreed with it. It's all such bullshit.

If someone murders someone, anyone really, because they read what jk said then they sorely misinterpreted what she said or because they have a very serious mental health problem. Quite possibly both. Either way they aren’t jk’s responsibility.

Boiledbeetle · 22/01/2023 15:43

TiddlesTheTiger · 22/01/2023 15:24

I'm completely done with the idea of 'trans' at all.
People should be honest about which sex they are, and present themselves any way they want .

I'm still waiting for a non circular definition that doesn't involve sexist stereotypes, because I say so, multiple use of the word gender to define gender, conflation of sex and gender.

I can support anyone to fight for rights that they currently don't have that others in a population do.the

I don't give a toss what job you do, what clothes you wear, what length of colour your hair is what your religion is what your ethnic background is, wether you've only got one leg, which sex you want to sleep with, I will help you to have parity.

But how can I allow losing my rights over something that No one seems able to define.

How can I be accused of being transphobic if no-one will tell me what I'm supposed to be phobic of?