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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

OJ has a special message for us…

567 replies

Cuppasoupmonster · 19/01/2023 13:14

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1616008459958231040/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1616008459958231040&currentTweetUser=OwenJones84

Gave me a laugh over my coffee anyway 😆 does he remind anyone else of arguments with their little brother? ‘You’re going to lose. Why are you hitting yourself’ etc 😂

Interesting he has never ever once engaged with any of the thousands of points as to why gender ideology is indefensible at best and harmful at worst, it’s always just ‘You’re going to lose… tiny minority… section 28’

OP posts:
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AutumnCrow · 11/02/2023 18:50

zanahoria · 10/02/2023 10:27

"accusations of misogyny are unfair"

whilst continuing to label anyone who disagrees with him as an 'anti trans activist'

I only know that people call me transphobic whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/02/2023 18:02

I wondered what James had said too Grin

WalfordBarbwireFence · 11/02/2023 17:35

For the avoidance of doubt; rhyming slang!!

And, yes - with hindsight Jeremy Hunt is both far more apposite and deserving!

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 10/02/2023 10:41

I was wondering what the problem with James Blunt was (music aside, obvs).

HiccupHorrendousHaddock · 10/02/2023 10:30

In short woman cervix-owner hating James Blunt

What’s wrong with James Blunt, @WalfordBarbwireFence ? He always seemed pretty self-deprecating and decent to me.

Or is it just a rhyming slang thing? (In which case, Jeremy Hunt works well)

zanahoria · 10/02/2023 10:27

"accusations of misogyny are unfair"

whilst continuing to label anyone who disagrees with him as an 'anti trans activist'

SidewaysOtter · 10/02/2023 10:16

I see from my sockpuppet account that he's whining that accusations of misogyny are unfair: apparently if he engages with us we shout at him with accusations of misogyny, but if he blocks us he's accused of misogyny.

Has it not occurred to him that it's his VIEWS that are misogynistic, along with his arrogance in telling women that their thinking is wrong? And that he is a proponent of an ideology that victimises women? No?

WalfordBarbwireFence · 09/02/2023 23:16

potniatheron · 19/01/2023 15:10

The reason why OJ is getting visibly angirer and angrier is becaise his side os losing and he knows it. He will never return to the heady heights of 2017 when Corbynism was riding high, 'trans' 'rights' were being swallowed unquestionably and he was regarded as THE go-to tlaking head on mainstream media for these issues. Millions reading his tweets, hundreds donating to his patreon. Multi-book deal.

Now what has he got? Sanity has returned to the Labour Party and Starmer has privately made it clear that he and Novara Media are no longer regarded as outreiders or allies. Mick Lynch and other high profile Union leaders want to do their own thing and have no interest in sharing a platform with him. The trans carapace has not survived contact with reality with all of OJ's fave institutions, Mermaids, Tavistock, Stonewall, and the whole legislative edifice crumbling. No new book deal since This Land bombed spectacularly. His LTR has just ended (and I do feel for him there).

This isn't about his prinicples it's about his career. It's dying not with a bang but a whimper. So little OJ casts around for someone to blame and, instead of doing the right thing and looking in the mirror, he decides it's all the fault of those horrible old hags - the TERFs.

Typical response of mediocre male failures for millennia - when things go wrong, it's women's fault!

And there it is...

An irrelevance desperately trying to cling to public attention by championing a minority cause in a way that alienates and offends a sizeable majority of the population.

In short woman cervix-owner hating James Blunt. Someone that deserves all the opprobrium he attracts. With military precision...

Abhannmor · 09/02/2023 08:22

Hmm. A lot of gay boys would enter the Catholic Church when I were a lad . Either to be ' cured' or just to avoid the inevitable questions about marriage, dating etc.

There may be an element of jealousy for straight women. It sounds very 1950s - but did the 50s ever end ?

EmpressaurusOfWitchesBackFromTheDead · 09/02/2023 08:18

I was chatting to Sweary Godmother about this and she thinks we should #BeKind to poor LOJ who’s obviously very upset.

She suggested that we should send support teddies to the Guardian offices for him. Even though he doesn’t work there any more I expect they’d forward them on. I thought rainbow teddies would be nice.

mrshoho · 09/02/2023 07:54

We know which list he's on.

OJ has a special message for us…
potniatheron · 08/02/2023 15:28

DianeBrewster · 08/02/2023 14:35

There definitely is, among some. I remember as a student back in the 70's naively assuming all gay men were my allies because the ones I knew were so lovely.... then I met a bunch of gay Anglican clerical students (I was a theology student, back in the day) who were deeply misogynistic and contemptuous about women, they had a revulsion around women's bodies.

I began to dig deeper in the issue of misogyny in the church (ended up teaching feminist theology) I came to the conclusion that some of the men I cam across seemed to be gay because they were repulsed by women - interesting how many of them seemed to be attracted to roles of power and influence over women, became clergy etc.

Those men who are repulsed by us will never be our allies, in anything.

Yes, there is a minority of gay men for whom repulsion at the female body is as large a driver in the sexuality as attraction to the male form.

Some go into the church, many more go into fashion and textile design where they can castigate women for their bodies and bully them into whittling down their flesh to resemble teenage boys.

DianeBrewster · 08/02/2023 14:35

potniatheron · 08/02/2023 11:51

I'm not sure that I agree with your reasoning, but I do agree that there is a huge and deep well of misogyny amongst gay men. I don't think straight women really appreciate this.

There definitely is, among some. I remember as a student back in the 70's naively assuming all gay men were my allies because the ones I knew were so lovely.... then I met a bunch of gay Anglican clerical students (I was a theology student, back in the day) who were deeply misogynistic and contemptuous about women, they had a revulsion around women's bodies.

I began to dig deeper in the issue of misogyny in the church (ended up teaching feminist theology) I came to the conclusion that some of the men I cam across seemed to be gay because they were repulsed by women - interesting how many of them seemed to be attracted to roles of power and influence over women, became clergy etc.

Those men who are repulsed by us will never be our allies, in anything.

potniatheron · 08/02/2023 11:51

Ohnohedident · 07/02/2023 10:40

I think Owen, along with other gay men who lack insight, instinctively feel and think that women are privileged.
Growing up gay, as well as facing homophobia, they have to face the fact most men they fancy wont fancy them back, and I think this can lead to bitterness against women.
So it does not take much for the LOJs and RLM to turn of women, however shaky the justification.

I'm not sure that I agree with your reasoning, but I do agree that there is a huge and deep well of misogyny amongst gay men. I don't think straight women really appreciate this.

teawamutu · 07/02/2023 20:47

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nepeta · 07/02/2023 20:43

It annoyed me that he regards most gender critical people as obsessed, because their Twitter accounts are about nothing but this one issue. The true reason, of course, is that people need a second account for this issue if they wish not to be drawn, quartered, and hung in public.

Ohnohedident · 07/02/2023 10:48

ArabellaScott · 20/01/2023 10:04

Anyone ever seen OJ 'beg' a woman to think about anything?

Indeed.

He is basically a male supremacist.

Hiding behind 'progressivism' whatever that is supposed to be.

Ohnohedident · 07/02/2023 10:40

RoyalCorgi · 20/01/2023 08:54

What strikes me with OJ, as with Russell-Moyle, is that he really believes this stuff. All the things he says about us going down in the history books are things I think about the trans activists. The transing of children will one day be seen as a huge medical scandal, and the people who let it happen will be judged by history (assuming of course that future people have a better sense of perspective than the people currently living through this period).

Almost all of the people on our side, though, have to be calm and rational because we're women, and if we spoke like this about our opponents, we'd be described as "hysterical" and over-emotional. So people like Kathleen Stock, Helen Joyce and Selina Todd always speak very fluently but logically because they cannot risk appearing emotional even though they must feel really angry.

It is fascinating to me how someone like OJ, supposedly intelligent, supposedly progressive, cannot grasp the other side of the argument at all. Cannot see that women who have a lifetime of Labour and trade union activism, stuffing envelopes, knocking on doors, organising jumble sales, haven't suddenly become bigots - that they have genuine concerns that they are articulating. I suspect, as we have said so often here, that he simply doesn't see women as people, with their own autonomous thoughts, feelings and experiences, at all. He just sees them as people in the background while men get on with the important stuff.

I think Owen, along with other gay men who lack insight, instinctively feel and think that women are privileged.
Growing up gay, as well as facing homophobia, they have to face the fact most men they fancy wont fancy them back, and I think this can lead to bitterness against women.
So it does not take much for the LOJs and RLM to turn of women, however shaky the justification.

DemiColon · 07/02/2023 10:36

Cuppasoupmonster · 06/02/2023 19:58

Haha brilliant! Beginning to think left wing men are just as sexist as the right wing ones. But then again all just men so 🤷🏼‍♀️

Left wing men can be very sexist, and lots of right wing men aren't at all. There's no correlation in my experience.

frazzled1 · 07/02/2023 10:30

www.theguardian.com/society/2023/feb/06/women-in-the-uk-share-your-experience-of-being-subjected-to-online-misogyny to share your experience of OJ's online misogyny.

Ohnohedident · 07/02/2023 10:27

nauticant · 19/01/2023 23:21

With impeccable timing, on the second episode of Unsafe Space on Radio 4, currently being broadcast, Andrew Doyle interviewed Owen Jones and the interview illustrates many of the ciritcisms of this thread:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001h4dk

The segment starts from about 9 minutes in. Well worth a listen.

He's a bully. He wont let Andrew talk (because he knows if the other argument is heard his game is up).

Ohnohedident · 07/02/2023 10:03

LizzieSiddal · 19/01/2023 20:40

Does anyone else think LOJ has been on the Colombian marching powder?

Well yeah, I kind of assumed it.

Rubidium · 07/02/2023 09:02

I see The Guardian are still deadnaming Dawson
www.theguardian.com/books/james-dawson

SinnerBoy · 06/02/2023 23:36

Rubidium · Today 19:46

“Women in the UK: share your experience of being subjected to online misogyny”

"Well, I accidentally read a few Owen Jones columns...

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2023 22:52

Given that Dawson said gay was 'a consolation prize'. Yes.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/juno-dawson-attitude-magazine-interview-transgender-gay-man-lgbt-trans-woman-a7752701.html