Why are trans people the "most marginalised and vulnerable" in society?

They’re all mere speculation though - because they are based on estimates of the number of transgender people.

It's clearly utter nonsense. Are transpeople more vulnerable in society than babies? Of course they're not. Are they more vulnerable than elderly people with dementia? Of course they're not. Severely disabled person requiring 24 hour care? Homeless teenagers? Children in care? You don't even need to look at statistics, just apply the tiniest drop of common sense and it's obviously not true.

Data on gender identity and age being made available on ONS on 25 January.

So far we have TW at less risk of murder than the rest of the population.

Some living in deprived areas, but some living in the least deprived areas. Possibly the numbers living in deprived areas are young people with neurodiversity and mental health problems who are being told their problems will all be solved by becoming the other sex.

So some transpeople are among the most vulnerable but this is more likely due to mental health issues, history of trauma, family situation rather than trans status, and some we know are among the most privileged because they have high ranking positions in society.

So why is this THE group that politicians want to focus most on, yet without actually critically examining the assumptions they are making. It's probably because it's so much easier than acknowledging how much worse they have made the lives of the OTHER most vulnerable people; with disabilities, living in poverty (which leads to an increase in DV, drug use, mental health problems), the elderly, children (impacted immensely by poverty for all the above reasons).

People who block driveways that don’t belong to them when parking are the most marginalised population of all. 😭

They are certainly vulnerable and marginalised on Mumsnet!

I'd like to know if there are any stats on the ages of trans identified people in the UK -how many transwomen are middle aged men? Anyone know if this info would be available anywhere?

The PP has it spot on - there is a correlation between teens and young adults identifying as trans/non-binary/other random identity having comorbidities which make them already vulnerable, and I think this explains the high numbers in some of the deprived areas.

Yes, “trans men” are a genuinely vulnerable group- even the class privileged among them are disproportionately likely to have been subjected to sexual assault and sexual abuse, and they are mostly teenage females with MH issues.

Transwomen in this country simply aren’t.

But the “vulnerable and marginalised” rhetoric is typically used to bully women into accepting males into single sex spaces - i.e. it is used to refer to TW. The horrific stats about TM’s mental health and abuse histories are used to bolster the story that TW are marginalised and vulnerable.

DarkDayforMN · Today 14:07

Do the per capita sum yourself or Google one of the many instances of people doing it previously for UK stats. It’s lower for TW than for actual women, never mind for other men. As has been said on here multiple times.

Yes, it's been done to death on a number of threads, but ELO and co just ignore the links and constantly ask for, erm, links.

Because magic woo woo unicorn rainbow glitter and special feelings, obviously.

Have you thought that the more relevant comparison might be murder and other forms of violence per head of population.

Do the per capita sum yourself or Google one of the many instances of people doing it previously for UK stats. It’s lower for TW than for actual women, never mind for other men. As has been said on here multiple times.

How so?

It's a less affluent part of London with an overrepresentation of many categories of vulnerable people.

Julie Bindel wrote an article, there were a couple of recent threads, about the large number of children claiming to be trans in Blackpool. Although, iirc, she didn't touch on it, Blackpool has the highest number of looked after children in the country and is very deprived anyway. Children's home have, very lucrative for some people, proliferated in the town. So much so that the LA have brought, or are bringing in, legislation to try to control it.

Julie's article touches on the number of sex offenders in Blackpool. I wonder if there's been a similar proliferation in the number of bail hostels. There's likely a lot of former b&bs and hotels that provide cheap accommodation suitable for single men. Perhaps the quantity vulnerable children (however they identify) is also a draw. Cheaper than going to Thailand!

Statistics are clearly not your thing

go ahead - but I believe Starmer and Ed Davey did not claim "most vulnerable", that claimed they were "one of the most vulnerable"

lol - the claim is that it is claimed the trans people are "most marginalised and vulnerable" in society"

statements from well known figures - e.g. Starmer and Ed Davey don't claim this, they claim they "ONE OF the most vulnerable". Which is different.

The highest % of transwomen is in Barking and Dagenham; I don't know what that might link to. Anyone any ideas?

Yes, and have a history of trauma, often domestic violence, sometimes sexual abuse, so it's pretty obvious to me why they'd be wanting to identify out of womanhood. I'm a Social Worker but not working so I've had time to look into this, I think for a lot of SWs they make the referral to CAMHS and rely on the 'experts'. I know I thought before I'd got into this that kids would be given therapy, not affirmation.

I agree. I think the that rate of males being murdered should be other males.

Those who state the number for femicide are doing so because it is femicide that feminists are most concerned about and violence against the female half of the population .

My issue with doing this (and it doesn't matter to the U.K. stats, whereas it does in the US and Brazil) is it means we are comparing only a section of female homicides with all trans homicides, which gives a misleading comparison of the per head murder rates.

Very interesting to see a breakdown FriendofJoanne. Apparently "looked after children" in local authority care are disproportionately likely to be referred to gender identity specialist care.

btw my post about social contagion was tongue in cheek/sarcastic.

and my comment about the survey was to do with the figures given on the ONS website being the percentage of people who DO agree gender is same as sex registered at birth, but doesn't account for GC people who may not have answered the question. I downloaded the excel sheet to see if the ONS had a total percentage of people who identify as other than sex at birth, but they don't, so I'd have to take time adding up the separate %s for different identities to get those figures, which would take far too long!

Have you thought that the more relevant comparison might be murder and other forms of violence per head of population.

Why would you do away with an accurate comparison group? Males are the correct comparator group for males.

Those who state the number for femicide are doing so because it is femicide that feminists are most concerned about and violence against the female half of the population .

I thought I'd do a little comparison between the ONS data on areas with highest number of people not identifying with sex registered at birth and stats relating to income inequality. It doesn't show much as I haven't taken account of people who didn't answer the question on the survey. Just out of interest, I was expecting numbers to be high in privileged neighbourhoods, thinking this is to some extent a middle class phenomenon - as demonstrated by the appearance of Kensington, Oxford and Cambridge.

The PP has it spot on - there is a correlation between teens and young adults identifying as trans/non-binary/other random identity having comorbidities which make them already vulnerable, and I think this explains the high numbers in some of the deprived areas. I'd be interested to be able to look at stats by area for domestic violence and sex crime, and break it down to numbers of girls identifying as boys. Interesting to note that in Newham & Brent it is mainly females identifying as transmen.

Also very interesting to see on the map; it's almost as if there's some kind of social contagion going on isn't there? I'd be interested to know which LAs are teaching this in schools. But then the opposing argument could be that if children are educated about it they feel free to 'come out' in their trans identity.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/genderidentity/bulletins/genderidentityenglandandwales/census2021

If trans people were more vulnerable than the rest of the population to physical violence, why wouldn't they have a higher murder rate? Genuine question, I'm interested in what you think.