Why are trans people the "most marginalised and vulnerable" in society?

Because they’re mostly white middle aged men who’ve discovered that no longer gets them to the front of the queue. So they pop on a dress and some lippy and suddenly they’re top of the pile again.

I agree there are many possible vulnerabilities for any group other than murder.

But trans people not being murdered is certainly a good thing.

In my report on murder rates in the US, I assumed mix sex in population percentages for trans and non/binary because I used the number calculated by Pew Research who defined it as all transgender and non-binary persons.

Despite that, those mixed sex numbers still had a lower murder rate than women or children.

I only have US data, but I think it's relevant as we know male pattern violence has similar trends around the world.

Rates are per 100,000

There were 24,576 recorded homicides in 2022. 1,011 of these murders were children under the age of 14. A rate of 1.7

4,618 women were murdered in the US in 2022. A rate of 2.8

19,958 men were murdered in the US in 2022. A rate of 12.3

Pew Research in 2021 found that about 1.6% of US adults are transgender or non-binary.

32 trans people murder is a rate of 1.28 so BELOW the rate of women being murdered and FAR below the rates of male populations.

www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

thanks! that's compelling. so, when it comes to murder as a metric TG are not amongst the most vulnerable. I accept that.

Yes. Only after it was pointed out that the murder rates were very low in recent years, you posted your three metrics.

You pivoted.

It is quite clear to any one reading.

This translates as a ]transgender] murder rate of around 0.165%. Now, that is still significantly higher than the murder rate for the UK as a whole

As is pointed out in the comments, the maths is wrong in this article (and the article itself shows the initial 0.165% is based on the incorrect initial total number of 11 rather than the correct 8 or 9).

I have no idea how the writer got to 0.165%, as they don't show their working.

But we know from the census that the total number of trans people in England & Wales is 262,000, so about 295,000 for the UK as a whole.

9 (probably 8, but let's be generous) murders since 2008 is 0.64 per year.

Which is 2.16 per million.

Quite a bit lower than 11.7 per million for the population as a whole.

I posted three metrics. One related to murder. I don't call that "focussing", especially vs the exclusive focus paid to it by many posters upthread.

I agree there are a multitude of groups that are "among the most vulnerable".

The whole discourse on all sides could do with a tighter definition of vulnerability.

How weird?

did you or did you not post:

“Have you thought that the more relevant comparison might be murder and other forms of violence per head of population.”

and

“Statistics are clearly not your thing”

and

”They’re all mere speculation though - because they are based on estimates of the number of transgender people”

and

“Plus the murder rate is higher than gen pop”

Seems like it is you focusing on the murder rate yourself.

And this is from a T!*

I don’t know where she got that 0.165% but it seems to be far, far too high. I think she’s comparing the murder rate per 11 years for trans people to the murder rate per year for everyone else.

It’s certainly contrary to the findings of TRA-biased sources using the same numbers. But congrats on finding someone who seems to have done her sums wrong!
www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

But it's the "most vulnerable " label that is the driving force to push to change legislation which will impact massively on another vulnerable group. And women who want to challenge this are accused of hate towards trans people.

This push doesn't happen for any other group. Why trans people?

I agree that the focus on murder is wrong-headed (though it does have the advantage of being a clear yardstick[ and that "one of the most" is not "the most". But I still don't think that as as an umbrella category, trans individuals are more marginalised and vulnerable than any other number of social groups you could mention, from the elderly and disabled to children in care, travellers, asylum claimants, prison inmates, etc. There are dozens of vulnerable and marginalised demographics out there.

many posters here are choosing to focus on murder, when the proposition in the OPs post was simply that it is being claimed "TG people are the most vulnerable"

not only has it not been claimed they are the "most" vulnerable, but it has not been claimed they are the most vulnerable to "murder"

vulnerability can be measured by a bunch of metrics. depending on which you choose TG people can come across as more or less vulnerable. but overall, the picture it, yes, they are among the most vulnerable.

jeeezzz - this thread is a hotbed of flawed logic and prejudice driving blindness to any clear thinking.

There isn't but if there was it still doesn't = marginalised.

Perhaps you could educate on what you class as hate?

@EastLondonObserver

are you the poster who was arguing vociferously that the people dressed in dog gimp masks with ropes tied round their waist being led through the IKEA cafe at the weekend was a bit of harmless and indeed instructive fun?

So if people who are into sexual diversity performing in public are the joyously liberated and liberating, how are the transgender the oppressed and vulnerable? Make your mind up.

Well strictly

The murder rate for transwomen is highly likely to be higher than the murder rate for the general population as the latter is mixed sex and the former isn't

Trying to calculate the murder rate for the whole transgender uk population must be tricky as until the last census no one was counting who classed themselves as transgender

I find it quite irritating when people say things they must know they can't justify . Such a waste of everyone's time

"This translates as a ]transgender] murder rate of around 0.165%. Now, that is still significantly higher than the murder rate for the UK as a whole"

unherd.com/2022/01/the-truth-about-trans-murders/

And this is from a T*!

Plus the murder rate is higher than gen pop.

How is the murder rate in the UK higher than any other group?

There has been zero murders for how many years? And we hope that trend continues. So it is currently 0! Job well done In lowering that rate in the UK!!

So how is this higher exactly?

You are seriously throwing shit against the wall in hope something sticks! And nothing is sticking.

Plus the murder rate is higher than gen pop.

You forgot the link for this one.

Plus the murder rate is higher than gen pop.

ONCE AGAIN, this is not true.

Thanks for the actual sources!
The crime rate thing I believe (age alone could explain it.) Though I’d like to see the stats specifically for TW, since they are usually the subject of this rhetoric.

I suspect that the sample size is so small that it is not possible to show meaningful distinction.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/17/trans-people-twice-as-likely-to-be-victims-of-in-england-and-wales

There's that for starters.

Plus the murder rate is higher than gen pop.

And HIV and psych care:

www.aidsmap.com/news/apr-2019/first-data-trans-people-accessing-hiv-care-england

Yes - cis women (and subsets thereof) are more vulnerable too than average.

But no claims have been made by prominent people they are "THE MOST VULNERABLE", only that they are "ONE OF THE MOST VULNERABLE". So, the fact that by some metrics cis women or subsets might be more vulnerable is a moot point.

And that is reasonable

By what metric, please? How are you measuring vulnerability?

This whole thread is nonsense because no one of any stature has claimed transgender people thee "THE MOST" vulnerable. Instead Starmer and Davey said "ONE OF". And that is reasonable.

No, they're now based on the numbers included in the census. You know that.