Kemi "to write to all Tory MPs to insist that a ban on trans conversion therapy must not criminalise parents"

Self promotion and campaigning is exactly what Kemi is doing. Why are some on here so scared of that idea?

What I hope is the result of pre-legislative scrutiny is that there is no need for a conversion therapy ban. This could happen in a few ways.
I hope they separate out the lgb and the T elements and realise that conversion therapy is not a significant problem for either group, except insofar as LGB people are encouraged to transition to take away the gay. That issue can be dealt with by safeguarding measures, without creating new criminal offences for violent or coercive practices. Conversion therapy for the T cohort doesn't happen in this country unless you count watchful waiting and questioning/challenging the person. Violence, coercion etc is already illegal. New laws bring unintended consequences. No new laws are needed anyway.
If they do decide that conversion therapy is a problem, I hope they will also attempt to define it and gender and gender identity and trans and realise that there is no stable meaning for any of those terms and therefore decline to legislate on those grounds.
The drive for this law is to get gender identity recognised in law. However bad the statute is, however weak the protection it confers. Even the passing of a law which protects therapists, parents, doctors etc and sets a very high bar for illegality will be a pyhrric victory for our side, because it will have achieved the primary aim of the TRAs.

The thing is concerned people are already being gagged. It's almost daily that posts like this appear on social media, this one was one i saw yesterday (I also have an autistic child) :

Hello there 🙂

I’m looking for advice from parents that have a young child who is transgender, 9 years old around that mark please 🙂 (our now boy was born with female parts)
This is very new to us in the sense of not having dealt / helped with this before however it is not new to us that he is clearly a boy! That has been obvious since he was born!

He’s also autistic, PDA, confidant!

incredibly smart and exceptionally funny! Imo he’s the funniest kid I’ve ever met! God I love him but I just need some help helping him navigate his way around the fact he does have female body parts 🙂 if that makes sense at all!

Look forward to chatting to some families that have experience or any insight 🙂 thanks

(Just to add his PDA is not what I need help with I have 4/5 kiddy’s that are pda individuals so feel quiet well knowledged about that area esp as I’m PDA myself 🙂

This kind of post is then met with adoring responses of how accepting this parent is, and how many other children with autism also are the wrong sex. Comments like it is so common for autistic children to be trans, isn't it wonderful.

Any parent or onlooker, group member who gives anything other than an accepting response is barred from the support group for 'hate'.

I think the issue is that if a concerned onlooker posts in their own name if laws are changed to criminalise dissent then a poster posting in their own name won't only be banned from groups but could also be committing an offence.

These posts breaks my heart. i just scroll by. You can't change a persons mind.

Professionals will be in such a difficult place.

Did anyone watch that gripping real life American Couples Therapy series? The therapist gently probed the life stories of all the participants except one, a post op transwoman. Despite the suggestions that the genital surgery hadn't been as successful as hoped, that they perhaps preferred sleeping with men to with their wife.

Often, adult trans people describe having experienced horrific homophobia and sexism in early life. If this was the case here, the couples therapist couldn't/ wouldn't go there. Fwiw I liked the transwoman a lot. I am sad that their experience of the therapy had to be more superficial, simply because of trans activism's hold on mental health professions.

Because you are the one who is attributing her efforts to campaigning in an attempt to minimise what she is doing.

You are attempting to diminish the importance of having very clear laws and guidance that Kemi is trying raise awareness of.

You doing it by framing her supporting the need for this clarity as ‘campaigning’ . And in doing so attempting to align her actions as self promotion rather than making sure this potential mess is averted through ensuring each MP has additional information about it.

Are you denying that this is your intention of your post?

This was the top recommended comment under an article in The Times yesterday about a ban on conversion therapy-today its been deleted for breaking community guidelines-what is going on?

Telling a potentially gay child they are a transexual IS conversion therapy. Telling a potentially gay child they need cross sex hormones & surgery IS conversion therapy.
Let children go through puberty & reach maturity. Stop telling children there is something wrong with them when there isn’t!

I remain baffled as to what a converter is converting someone from/to? I genuinely don't understand?

Within the ideology, "gender" is a real thing, so pointing out someone's actual sex can be interpreted as trying to change their "gender", eg from "transwoman" to "cisman".

I guess theoretically that could be thing - you could have a genderologist "therapist" trying to "change" someone's "gender".

But no, in reality, it will be mostly people pointing out someone's sex, and saying nothing about their "gender" or trying to change it, because they don't believe in "gender".

I suppose you can have the thing the reformed trans parents talk about of how they used to keep punishing their boy for wanting to wear dresses? They weren't really just pointing out sex, they were trying to make them conform to a "gender" role, hence trying to change "gender".

Ah! Someone who chooses to identify themselves as totally irrelevant to this discussion.

Well done you!

How is pointing out what the MP in question is doing in anyway shaming to them, unless it is shameful for the MP to be campaigning to be leader of their party?

I remain baffled as to what a converter is converting someone from/to? I genuinely don't understand?
Are they considered to be trying to stop someone thinking of themselves a certain way or expressing themselves in a certain way? All over every land, parents/families are dealing with tensions in relation to this as teens explore 'who they are'.

I'd be grateful if you could point out where the insults were in my post.

I know I'm being stupid on this but it seems to me that social transition, especially of children, IS conversion therapy. 🤷‍♀️

I've now read the whole article @ResisterRex (sorry I can't post the archive link, they get deleted). But the only 'exceptions' mentioned to criminalisation are specific groups, teachers, religious leaders, parents etc.

What about concerned friends? What about normal, everyday concerned women? We are not therapists, we are not professionals. But we have a lot of knowledge.

We must not be gagged by this legislation. We witches must be allowed to keep speaking out, and to whom we choose, without fear.

Exactly. There are already huge problems with the training in this area.
Were the results and response to the consultation we all completed ever published?

Surely this shuts down the possibility of clinical studies that compare affirmative care with talking therapies, because it will make conducting talking therapies very difficult. Care for this area of medicine desperately needs more evidence based, and this will be a hindrance to achieving that.

Thank you Bosky.

We actually need that excerpt to be put into the Break it down thread . Because it shows exactly that unless laws are written with clear definition they are now worthless.

That concerns addressed in Hansard with assurances that those concerns are covered and no additional clarity or restrictions is needed to pass the act have been shown to be historically naive.

This is where parliaments need to address the issues with robust legislation.

"Therapist, sometimes I think I am a gay man and sometimes I think I am a transwoman"

Which one would win out on that case?

Considering its a crime worse than death to not affirm a 'trans' person I think I know the answer.

Which one, would most likely result in the person having better mental health in the long term (becuase its what they actually are)?

I, for one, am glad this plaster is finally being ripped off in Parliament. The behaviour of Lloyd Russell-Moyle towards Miriam Cates in the chamber yesterday showed up the nastiness that simmers below.

I hope that politicians, led by Kemi and others can get clarity on the legal terms and define sex rather than made up gender as the important factor.

If conversion therapy is defined as
"the practice of attempting to cause a non-heterosexual person to become heterosexual by using psychoanalysis, behaviour modification, spiritual counselling, etc" then the tactics of trans organisations that target children will meet the bar for for conversion therapy. The emotive gaslighting techniques are immense - fact & evidence free training that frames questions as transphobic, #nodebate, prioritising trans over a child's known co morbidities. Gendered Intelligence selling "mentoring" by self interested adults to work 1 -1 with children in schools confused about their sex.

Posters on here have comprehensive screen shot / recorded evidence of all these extreme techniques used by organisations and individuals in their efforts to trans children, especially "transing away the gay" in children which hopefully will be shared in any consultations.