Complications from trans surgery!

It should have been. I'll report it now.

Perhaps you can turn your attention to the facts in this thread instead of nursing your bias.

This is interesting. I wonder if people can join the dots?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-64223032

That was an excellent point contrasting this with FGM.

We condemn cultures where young girls aren't acceptable as they are until they are mutilated to be made into a 'real' woman.

In the West, we tell vulnerable people that they aren't acceptable in their identity until they are mutilated (even more extremely) to be made into a 'real' man/woman (whichever one they aren't).

Everyone is finding a persona, wants to belong. It used to be and still is Skinhead, Teddy Boy, Goth, Instagram queen etc. Many teenagers feel misunderstood and 'other', they almost all seek a clan.

How often do we look back in horror at stupid superficial, easily reversible things like clothes we wore and hairstyles we had (not always that many) years ago and feel so glad that we've moved on now? How many people deeply regret tattoos further down the line, never mind having lost their healthy genitals and breasts for no reason whatsoever?

It wasn't deleted, it is still standing.

And several other other posts have had to be deleted.

@Lockheart , every single response - except for the one that was denounced as callous and rightly deleted. Ok then. You've definitely won that point. 🙄

This thread is brilliant and appalling in equal measures. So many people just do not realise the consequences for youngsters being brainwashed by trans activists on SM.
Here in Scotland we have been fighting the SNP's drive to amend the GRR to include sixteen year olds...who are not considered mature enough to legally have a tattoo!

I'm very far from a TRA.

You said "every single response" which is patently untrue. Don't try to change the argument now you've been told you're incorrect and then complain that I'm the one acting in bad faith.

@Lockheart Did the dismissive "oh well" on the front page and the deleted posts totally pass you by?

Did the many responses denouncing the callousness of the post pass you by? Can you do counting and work out the ratio: one nasty comment, scores of deeply concerned ones?

This is what disgusts me about TRAs: they simply don't do good faith arguments.

There was a thread about this a while back. A detransitioner likened it to 20 minutes of self torture a day, a reminder of how stupid you’d been. They were of course denounced by the trans community on Twitter.

Messed up the quotations above. Meant to say, to this: it's just so fucking frustrating to watch the potential problems finally being openly discussed now.

Yes, it's crazy-making that we've been monstered for trying to point all of this out for YEARS, but what makes me so angry is that it apparently takes a certain body count of the most vulnerable people in society before people start to take any interest.

There is a Canadian transwoman on twitter (whom I like), who posted about approaching medics regarding Canada's Medical Assistance In Dying program in the future. They've had all the procedures, including vaginoplasty. They posted that they didn't want to "get old in this body".

Doesn't that make you feel sick with dread for the current generation?

it's just so fucking frustrating to watch the potential problems finally being openly discussed now.

I would argue that many of the people advocating these treatments have unexamined and very dark attitudes towards 'correcting' gay and autistic people. Leaving aside the aging AGPs, the younger people all just want to feel 'normal'. The so-called professionals nodding along to this are akin to Mengele in my view. It's eugenics.

This is very true but I’d be more inclined to believe it if the gender clinics were not deliberately avoiding gathering any data on this and are notoriously bad on follow up and sometimes even aftercare (see my other comment about the patient that nearly died with huge amounts of necrosis after surgery).

As with all things related to these issues, there is an avoidance of gathering data. Many detranistioners report feeling abandoned by their clinics who were previously so eager to rush them through surgery. The NHS Tavistock (being shut down because it was found to have too many unsafe practices) had an ideal opportunity to gather lots of data on young transitioners and their outcomes - not just directly related to surgery but the whole proves. In ten years and thousands of patients, they failed. Despite being given government funding to do the research, for some reason it was suppressed and prevented by the people in charge at the Tavistock.

So I think it is safe to assume that the problems and injuries we are seeing are the tip of the iceberg. As we saw with the patient I mentioned previously, she was reluctant to come forward. Anyone that goes public with trans surgery related problems received huge abuse from parts of the trans community. They risk losing their trans support network and may be excommunicated. Some feel utterly lost and their health is harmed and the gender clinics don’t want to know.

If it was all so good and full of rosy outcomes, don’t you think they’d want to prove it transparently to everyone to justify the huge amounts of money ($billions across US, Canada, UK, Europe) this is costing the healthcare systems?

Every single post? Really?

Did the dismissive "oh well" on the front page and the deleted posts totally pass you by?

Every single post here is expressing distress at the treatment of trans people. If caring for trans people is transphobia, god help your warped view of the world.

Our vaginas are muscular, flexible, self-lubricating and self-cleaning. Our clitorises are amazing and extend far beyond what can be seen. Men really don't appreciate the marvels of the female body. They think we're just holes to be penetrated, don't they?

This gets to the heart of something I find deeply upsetting about all of this. We know there is a clash of rights around transwomen, but what really bothers me is the disgustingly simplistic way 'being a woman' is framed by TRAs. It's just clothes, hair, make-up. It utterly fails to realise how incredible a woman's body is - how complex, how tough, how generally marvellous. And this is because the TRA narrative is mostly pushed by men, but backed up by very angry and strange women who seem to have accepted that women are just a series of holes.

If you think it’s ok for 12 year old girls to have a mastectomy, and then these people suffer life long disabilities due to surgery that they didn’t need in the first place, I’m more than happy to be called transphobic. Hell, I will wear my terf badge with pride

Personally, I would, yes. I think we'd all be a lot better off if we stopped trying to get a fantasy version of ourselves and learned to love our bodies as they are.

“Surgery on healthy body parts for other reasons should surely be banned.”

would you include face lifts, breast enlargement, buttock implants etc in that?

Yes I can't imagine there are many training opportunities

The vast majority of transwomen do not have 'bottom surgery' - something like 85% do not have it. This Daily Mail report from Canada shows some of the reasons why. It is therefore referring to a tiny number of people undertaking the surgery, if fewer than 0.5% of the population is trans, and only 15% of that very small number actually has the surgery. My concern is that transwomen are able, while being physically intact males, to infiltrate women's prisons, hospital wards, cloakrooms, changing rooms, refuges, sports etc. While most are respectful individuals trying to live their lives as quietly as possible, there are others who are sexual deviants who get their pleasure out of offending and possibly assaulting women.

Most people with differences of sexual development do not require surgery. The number of cases where a baby is born with ambiguous genitalia is minuscule. There can't be enough of these cases for surgeons to have built up the kind of expertise which is now routine in, say, cardiovascular surgery, where every major teaching hospital is carrying out complex operations and procedures on dozens of patients every week, so lots of surgeons can be trained.

Surgery is mostly reserved for attempting to cure medical problems, e.g. removing infected or cancerous or badly damaged body parts. It's also used to re-model certain body parts which are causing pain or affecting body function because of the way they have developed, e.g. breast reduction to help with back pain. It's used for cosmetic purposes, e.g. to try to improve the look and function of badly burned skin, or to remove a large birthmark which other people have commented on, leading to distress in the patient.

Surgery on healthy body parts for other reasons should surely be banned. Surgery to try to resolve a psychological problem is doomed to failure if the underlying issues aren't resolved. Learning to live with reality, e.g. being female or male, is an essential life skill, and anyone struggling with it needs skilled therapy and support from mental health professionals. Decades ago surgeons did lobotomies without having any real idea of what they were doing, and that didn't cure the severe psychiatric illnesses the patients were diagnosed with. Surely the medical profession should have learned from that!

Wasn’t Vincent van Gogh considered to be mentally unstable when he tried to cut off his own ear? He even painted a self portrait with bandages around his head.

It’s monumental self harm being pushed and validated and glossed over and re-branded as a lifestyle choice, as a way to form an “identity”.

“Bottom surgery” my arse.

The surgeries are done mostly on physically healthy people who happen to have a mental health condition.

It bears repeating: how is this different to the lobotomies of old?

They are not mentally well when they make these decisions. They are also too young to understand the irreversible nature of their decisions.

I'm now interested in the history of "bottom surgery" how new is it? I imagine it's been done quite a few times now? I guess from where people have been born with ambiguous genitalia.