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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UK Government confirms it will block Scottish GRR

392 replies

IwantToRetire · 16/01/2023 17:44

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64288757

OP posts:
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Baldieheid · 17/01/2023 16:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Boiledbeetle · 17/01/2023 16:07

Got anything more recent Marg??

GrouchyKiwi · 17/01/2023 16:05

Since 25 January hasn't happened yet this year, it's obvious that's old data. Try again.

MargaritaPie · 17/01/2023 15:59

From a study of 2,000+ Scots the majority are supportive of the reforms, especially amongst the younger gens.

Interesting to note how women are actually more supportive of this than men, despite gender critical people often claiming to speak for women.

UK Government confirms it will block Scottish GRR
WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 17/01/2023 15:33

God my grammar in that last paragraph is terrible! I mean they are now becoming aware of the implications for women, once you look past the slogans and see in detail at what it actually means - especially self ID.

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 17/01/2023 15:31

YY good point @Boiledbeetle we would have to engage with knobheads outside our Special Corner (although some do come visit us here from time to time, which is always fun Wink)

I'm sorry I can't find it now amongst the posts now, but for whoever said it, I love the quote about being "grateful for sunlight no matter who opened the curtains"

In my experience of RL (where I also get called a knobhead regularly Grin) young people are becoming much more aware of the implications for women under the slogans. It's costing me a fortune in stickers Wink

IcakethereforeIam · 17/01/2023 15:14

I've been posting on a 'complications after trans surgery' thread in aibu. It's around 400 posts and I'm astonished it hasn't been moved or taken down. There's been some pretty strong stuff on it too. So far only one accusation of transphobia.

AutumnCrow · 17/01/2023 15:12

GailBlancheViola · 17/01/2023 15:08

If I hear this most vulnerable group of people (meaning trans) one more time from those willing to sacrifice women and girls on the altar of male wants and wishes I won't be responsible for my actions.

Ah mate you haven't lived if you've not heard Wera Hobhouse (Lib Dem) belting it out in the House of Commons with fake tremulous voice building to a demented righteous anger. Batshit stuff.

GailBlancheViola · 17/01/2023 15:08

If I hear this most vulnerable group of people (meaning trans) one more time from those willing to sacrifice women and girls on the altar of male wants and wishes I won't be responsible for my actions.

Boiledbeetle · 17/01/2023 15:02

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 17/01/2023 14:53

So pleased this is finally "mainstream" news and the public are becoming aware of it.

I wonder if the FWR Sex and Gender Discussion board can now be "dissolved" and these threads finally be allowed back on the main boards? No need for us to be pushed aside any more surely, if these threads had been allowed to stand on the main boards it wouldn't have taken so long for women to become aware of the danger posed to them and their DDs.

But I like it here in our little corner.

It's cosy.

please don't make me go and play with all the others.

seriously though, I have noticed though that some threads are staying in AIBU right through 1000 posts when they would usually have been shoved in here after about 20 posts.

so there is hope we will get to be main stream (for thinking a women Is a human adult female!?!) One day.

WarriorN · 17/01/2023 15:01

ArabellaScott · 17/01/2023 14:23

They're talking about sex based rights in the HoC!!!!

Could anyone summarise please?

I have to do parenting stuff for the next 3 hours.

WarriorN · 17/01/2023 14:58

Just a heads up that Ritchie Heron will be on pm as part of their on going debate on this.

UK Government confirms it will block Scottish GRR
WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 17/01/2023 14:53

So pleased this is finally "mainstream" news and the public are becoming aware of it.

I wonder if the FWR Sex and Gender Discussion board can now be "dissolved" and these threads finally be allowed back on the main boards? No need for us to be pushed aside any more surely, if these threads had been allowed to stand on the main boards it wouldn't have taken so long for women to become aware of the danger posed to them and their DDs.

Lovinmyblanket · 17/01/2023 14:45

I'm shouting a lot at the TV though.
But it's a more open debate than you hear at SP about the topic.
My MP has been on. She was very dismissive when I wrote to her.

Ohnohedident · 17/01/2023 14:42

Happy for the women of Scotland.

IwantToRetire · 17/01/2023 14:41

we have a male running a Rape Crisis centre in Scotland.

It is clear. But some are making an ideologic choice not to do this. That is the challenge. Just because parts of the Scottish Women's Sector have fallen doesn't make it true.

And the fact that those with authority in Scotland who could challenged ERCC advertising a post as being SSE and then appointing a man, shows the willingness in Scotland to contravene the law.

Which is why it is ironic (or worse) that NS etc., are now going on and on about how SSE exist, when in the very recent past they have undermined and flouted them.

She should be called out for the hypocrite she is.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 17/01/2023 14:35

Shout out for JK Rowling in the HoC! MP calls her a 'heroine'

ArabellaScott · 17/01/2023 14:32

Please can we not go over again that the Single Sex Exemptions do allow you to exclude men AND men with a GRC that says "for all other purposes" they are female.

OP, we have a male running a Rape Crisis centre in Scotland. This point is very far from clear.

ArabellaScott · 17/01/2023 14:32

It's amazing, bignose! Vigorous and heated debate!

bignosebignose · 17/01/2023 14:27

ArabellaScott · 17/01/2023 14:23

They're talking about sex based rights in the HoC!!!!

Marvellous, isn't it? Repeatedly referring to that specific element. Rosie Duffield giving support from the Labour benches. Most heartening all in all.

IwantToRetire · 17/01/2023 14:25

Please can we not go over again that the Single Sex Exemptions do allow you to exclude men AND men with a GRC that says "for all other purposes" they are female.

The main problem over this has been failure of groups who could implement it, implementing it and funders who try to pressurise groups not to use it, and those who have fallen for the Stonewall training lie about SSE including men with GRC.

In fact both the Scottish Parliament and pro trans groups have emphasised that this right to SSE still exist so why is everyone going on about the challenge to the EA.

However, I will admit (maybe because it does not impinge on me - blush) I had overlooked / not taken into account the lowering of the age in Scotland to 16 and how that might impact on schools.

So there are two parts to this, the existing failure of the SSE to work in practice because of attempts to infringe on women's rights, but now the impact of one group of people being able to get a GRC through self identity as from 16, and another group of people able to get a GRC at 18, but only after a longer process.

So as posted late last night the lack of equality in the UK as a whole is between those wanting GRCs. So does the Scottish GRR challenge the UK GRA.

Bur if anything comes out of this mess, let us at least get not just politicians, but the general public, funders and those running support groups such as the monstrous Survivors Network in Brighton not only acknowledge but implement the SSE. The EA even puts forward as an example of why women need single sex services is that a woman who has been raped would not be comfortable with a trans woman in a support group.

So whilst I think many politicians are using this issue for other reasons, we should remember that how this challenge even came up was because of how sucess the trans campaign has been, even to the extent that those who you would have thought would want to have and use SSE, chose not to. It is that public shift in attitude (away from women's sex based rights) that create the sense that this was not an issue.

Ideally all group involved in campaigning for women's sex based rights should maybe do a joint campaign just focusing on why women not just need but are entitled to them, not just for survivors of male violence, but schools, sports, prisons.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 17/01/2023 14:23

They're talking about sex based rights in the HoC!!!!

Britinme · 17/01/2023 14:23

Baldieheid · 17/01/2023 13:00

Qere told we CAN exclude, but that often means the funding is withdrawn.
As far as I know, Beiras Place is a private business, not a charity, so they can exclude whoever they want.
I run my own business. I declined to make adult nappies for a male who told me it was for "scat play". Actually, I'm afraid my first instinct was to laugh out loud, he slammed the phone down on me and that was that. But I could not be forced to make anything for him. I'd like to see someone try....its my business. I'll sew what I fucking well want to.

On my side of the Atlantic, there are court cases about whether a baker can decline to make wedding cakes for same-sex couples if they claim it violates their religious beliefs. The law isn't totally clear on that but there isn't a lot of sympathy for them from the non-evangelical.

ArabellaScott · 17/01/2023 14:21

Jack says 'we do not believe there are sufficient safeguards for women and children'

This is really wonderful sunlight. Vigorous and lively debate on the risks presented by sex change laws.

SinnerBoy · 17/01/2023 14:17

On funding of DV shelters and such, have they not got a legal case for discrimination, if they are forced to accept trans identifying males? Under the exemptions in the Equality Act?