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Original poster

Telegraph: Rishi Sunak set to block Nicola Sturgeon's trans law tonight

143 replies

ResisterRex · 16/01/2023 17:30

This is the reporting from their live blog:

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/16/rishi-sunak-strikes-nurses-news-latest-keir-starmer-brexit/

"Rishi Sunak is to block Nicola Sturgeon's controversial gender reforms after receiving clear legal advice that they would undermine women's rights, the UK Government is set to announce tonight.

The Telegraph understands that Alister Jack, the Scottish Secretary, is set to tell the First Minister on Monday evening that he will issue a Section 35 veto to prevent the law, which was passed at Holyrood in December, from coming into force.
The move is certain to spark yet another bitter constitutional row between Ms Sturgeon's SNP administration in Edinburgh and the UK Government.
Ahead of the announcement, the First Minister said a block would amount to using trans people as a "political weapon". The Scottish Government is almost certain to seek to overturn the veto in the Scottish Courts.
However, UK Government lawyers have advised that the Bill, which would allow people as young as 16 to self-identify their legal gender, "cuts across" UK-wide legislation on equalities.
Mr Jack is expected to write to Ms Sturgeon, the Commons speaker and Holyrood's Presiding Officer informing them of his decision to invoke Section 35 of the Scotland Act.
The measure, seen as a "nuclear option", has never been used before in the history of devolution.
He is then due to formally lay the Order in the Commons tomorrow, and expand on his reasons for doing so. It is expected that Mr Jack will address the Commons in a statement on Tuesday."

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/01/2023 19:05

This whole issues is being cynically used by the Tories.

And the SNP.

Original poster
ResisterRex · 16/01/2023 19:04

It's not because you said something I don't like. I'm not 9. It's because you're being disingenuous.

OP posts:
AbsoluteYawns · 16/01/2023 19:03

Thank goodness this is happening. I'm absolutely disgusted with NS stance on this. What is she thinking?!

XanaduKira · 16/01/2023 19:03

Chillyallday · 16/01/2023 17:35

I really hope this happens! I’m in Scotland and have never cited Tory but they are the only party who care about women.

This!

Really hope Rishi stands up for women and that everyone vocally backs him!

watchfulwishes · 16/01/2023 19:02

Starmer is indeed going to have to work out what to say and that will not be totally straightforward.

MarshaBradyo · 16/01/2023 19:01

watchfulwishes · 16/01/2023 18:59

Look, just because I am discussing something you don't like doesn't make it OK to have a general, personal go at me. I have not had a go at you, I would not do that.

FWIW I did re-find it, it was Tom Harwood from GB News - which I do not watch - so will have read somewhere else - who said that Frank Luntz was advising Sunak not to prioritise this issue. I do not know if hs sources are accurate.

This is a complicated political judgement being made by Sunak, involving the issue itself + devolution + voter priorities. What it is not, IMO, is a sign that Sunak gives a shit about women's issues. This whole issues is being cynically used by the Tories.

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Tories are just not as captured as SNP, Greens and likely Labour

It’s much easier for them to take a reasonable stance

They don’t need to be cynical just straightforward

watchfulwishes · 16/01/2023 18:59

ResisterRex · 16/01/2023 18:46

@watchfulwishes you said:

"However there is an issue in England that the Tories are left explaining something quite technical - about how this change in Scotland could affect someone in SE England - rather than focusing on the CoL crisis or ambulance delays etc etc."

Then it's:

"That is a lot to explain to people who rate this issue about 178th on their priority list.

There is what you think about this issue and what the political situation is aorund this issue.

It is not a priority issue for most people.

It is not about them not being able to understand - it is about most people do not care about this issue the way you do."

It's not a lot to explain. And if it's not a priority and people don't care, then it won't matter come election time, will it?

As for who cares about it, clearly you do. Enough to make up some bollocks about polling you then somehow couldn't find, then spend all this time on this thread. Hmmm.

Look, just because I am discussing something you don't like doesn't make it OK to have a general, personal go at me. I have not had a go at you, I would not do that.

FWIW I did re-find it, it was Tom Harwood from GB News - which I do not watch - so will have read somewhere else - who said that Frank Luntz was advising Sunak not to prioritise this issue. I do not know if hs sources are accurate.

This is a complicated political judgement being made by Sunak, involving the issue itself + devolution + voter priorities. What it is not, IMO, is a sign that Sunak gives a shit about women's issues. This whole issues is being cynically used by the Tories.

Canabelievethis · 16/01/2023 18:56

Good!

UWhatNow · 16/01/2023 18:55

I imagine that there are lots of scared women in Scotland secretly very relieved about this.

Why can’t Sturgeon imagine that? Why is she so intent on throwing women’s rights away?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/01/2023 18:54

watchfulwishes · 16/01/2023 18:39

That is a lot to explain to people who rate this issue about 178th on their priority list.

There is what you think about this issue and what the political situation is aorund this issue.

It is not a priority issue for most people.

It is not about them not being able to understand - it is about most people do not care about this issue the way you do.

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They don't care... yet.

Because they assume there are adults in the room. They assume that no one would seriously be putting intact males in women's prisons, or stopping rape support groups committing to providing female only spaces, or allowing fully grown men to compete as women in sport, or forcing therapists to affirm a child's gender confusion without any analysis of the wider context in which it is emerging.

This will blow that wide open.

WickedSerious · 16/01/2023 18:53

Thank fuck for that.

Original poster
ResisterRex · 16/01/2023 18:50

Starmer said he was waiting to see what the legal advice was. So he is going to have to say something

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 16/01/2023 18:49

yossell · 16/01/2023 18:40

It really doesn't take political willpower -- they're just playing to their core voters who love to get one over the scottish and anything they perceive as woke. Not saying it's not the right thing to do in this case, but it's utterly cynical stuff from the tories.

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It does because SNP can so easily spin the Westminster are ruling us line for political gain.

Kucinghitam · 16/01/2023 18:47

To be clear, it seems uncontroversial to me that when most people are genuinely made to consider the direct implications of genderism upon themselves, they're likely to go "WTF! What a load of testicles!" but for most of the time and most of the population, they aren't confronted with genderism. And there are (rightly) all these other priorities such as keeping a roof over your head and not starving.

So arguably Sunak could be on a vote-winner and/or Sturgeon/Starmer/et al could be on a vote-loser... it's just that realistically, not enough people are going to be aware enough to move the needle much.

lifeturnsonadime · 16/01/2023 18:47

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/01/2023 17:54

More sunlight. I shall be very interested to see what Labour do

im also interested in the polls that say sunak is out of step with the public on this

I'm very interested too. Presumably the opposition party will be forced to reveal it's hand.

Politically this is very very interesting.

Shame that women and children have been used as pawns by the SNP.

Original poster
ResisterRex · 16/01/2023 18:46

@watchfulwishes you said:

"However there is an issue in England that the Tories are left explaining something quite technical - about how this change in Scotland could affect someone in SE England - rather than focusing on the CoL crisis or ambulance delays etc etc."

Then it's:

"That is a lot to explain to people who rate this issue about 178th on their priority list.

There is what you think about this issue and what the political situation is aorund this issue.

It is not a priority issue for most people.

It is not about them not being able to understand - it is about most people do not care about this issue the way you do."

It's not a lot to explain. And if it's not a priority and people don't care, then it won't matter come election time, will it?

As for who cares about it, clearly you do. Enough to make up some bollocks about polling you then somehow couldn't find, then spend all this time on this thread. Hmmm.

OP posts:
LetsDoThis2023 · 16/01/2023 18:43

Thank god he's doing SOMETHING useful.

Now sort our our public services you moron!

inigomontoyahwillcox · 16/01/2023 18:42

Undemocratic? One of the foundations of democracy is truth - there hasn't been much truth from NS's mouth.

yossell · 16/01/2023 18:40

MarshaBradyo · 16/01/2023 17:41

Well done

Takes political willpower as will bite them back a bit

Worth it though

It really doesn't take political willpower -- they're just playing to their core voters who love to get one over the scottish and anything they perceive as woke. Not saying it's not the right thing to do in this case, but it's utterly cynical stuff from the tories.

watchfulwishes · 16/01/2023 18:39

ResisterRex · 16/01/2023 18:36

There's nothing technical to explain about:

Male says some words
Gets paper allowing him into women's spaces
Everyone has to play along

I'm quite sure the good people of SE England will cope with understanding this concept.

That is a lot to explain to people who rate this issue about 178th on their priority list.

There is what you think about this issue and what the political situation is aorund this issue.

It is not a priority issue for most people.

It is not about them not being able to understand - it is about most people do not care about this issue the way you do.

Merida46 · 16/01/2023 18:37

Nicoliar refused to meet women's groups who were quite rightly concerned about the safety of women and girls but she quite happily took directions from TRA lobby groups. She is only in power because of those twerps in the Green party and she is dancing to their Transfandango! Time she was booted out of Holyrood.

Original poster
ResisterRex · 16/01/2023 18:36

There's nothing technical to explain about:

Male says some words
Gets paper allowing him into women's spaces
Everyone has to play along

I'm quite sure the good people of SE England will cope with understanding this concept.

OP posts:
watchfulwishes · 16/01/2023 18:33

Kucinghitam · 16/01/2023 18:27

Although I don't have access to any data, I could give credence to suggestions that Sunak's actions aren't necessarily a vote winner - after all, most people are far more concerned about cost of living, climate change, immigration, Brexit, etc. However, by that same token I could imagine that Sunak's actions aren't a vote loser either.

This is what they are gambling on I think - that any loss on the independence/overruling SP side of the equation is more than compensated for on the other side. However there is an issue in England that the Tories are left explaining something quite technical - about how this change in Scotland could affect someone in SE England - rather than focusing on the CoL crisis or ambulance delays etc etc.

Unsure33 · 16/01/2023 18:31

Kucinghitam · 16/01/2023 18:27

Although I don't have access to any data, I could give credence to suggestions that Sunak's actions aren't necessarily a vote winner - after all, most people are far more concerned about cost of living, climate change, immigration, Brexit, etc. However, by that same token I could imagine that Sunak's actions aren't a vote loser either.

I don’t think it will win him votes necessarily but if Starmer does not stop making statements about 99% of women don’t have a penis , then he will lose votes . Not sure atm where they will go though .

Unsure33 · 16/01/2023 18:29

Thesonglastslonger · 16/01/2023 18:15

Absolutely! You didn’t think Sturgeon actually cared about the deluded demands of a teeny tiny percentage of her electorate?

She has one thought in her head, only one, and that is “What is the path to a Scottish exit from the Union?”

She saw a chance to force through a Scottish bill she knew would undermine English and Welsh laws, and she used it to put the Tories on the spot: either block her and let her present it as an English attack on Scottish democracy, or let it go through and let Sturgeon boast that she can change the law in England and override Westminster.

I do think she’s proved she’s an idiot though, this doesn’t look to anyone like an English attack on Scottish democracy, it looks like England rescuing Scottish women from the dictatorial whims of a fanatic and incompetent leader.

Sturgeon is the last “divide to rule” leader if the Trump-Johnson-Sturgeon era. Scotland needs to give her the boot, replace her with someone who actually wants good things for Scotland, and then we can all move on from the last shitty decade.

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Well said . This is it in a nutshell . When I asked on Twitter why strong Scottish women had let this go through , the answer was the independence vote was dangled again.

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