Good Morning Britain - Helen Joyce today

India, not Holly

Love H on trigonometry. She did brilliantly in the interview.

The absolute irony of Holly stating that they can’t talk for anyone else is hilarious. As is the fact that they were concerned someone might steel their identity from the passport.

I mean come one surely this may make the penny drop for someone?!?!

I am the same. I know it's wrong and know what the ramifications of say allowing a 16 year old to change their sex (in a legal sense rather than the impossible biological sense) after a few months of experimenting. Or giving violent men an avenue where they are legally treated as bring female. But I get exasperated and flustered trying to express it.

Lol IW self censoring on twitter

From this:

India Willoughby
·
10h
I don’t know the circs of the Irish prisoners HJ claimed, But I DO know that no prisoner in the UK with a history of sexual violence can Self ID and be transfered into the womens estate. Imposs. I’ve been to prison, met Governors. Can’t. Happen. Rules changed after K White.

To this:

India Willoughby
.
20m
There is not a single case anywhere in the world of a predator pretending to be trans, going down the three-month Self ID process with a solicitor, and using an updated birth certificate to attack a woman. Not one. It’s a COMPLETE LIE. #PitchforksAndLanterns

What it does show is that for many politicians, believing that people are who they say they are is unthinkable if there are financial implications, despite disabled people having to jump through hoops, but suddenly it’s much less of an issue if its women’s safety and dignity at risk rather than money.

I am exactly the same!!!! I can never quite express how it is just so wrong. I just get frustrated and hot!

She’s doing it because she cares about children and the harm being done to them as a result of this belief system being promoted to them online, in the media and in schools. Basically she’s sacrificed her career to raise awareness of the issue and try to prevent further harm.

India will have the last word, damnit!

Helen articulates the ridiculousness of this mess magnificently.

IW is so shallow and dim. Waving her passport ffs. People like IW are not interested in the minor matters such as single sex schools and the issues they face. The eye rolling and facial expressions from IW while Helen was speaking was cringeworthy.

Yes. And didn't she say, whatever they do?

Whether they allow boys to get changed and sleep in dorms with with girls, or whether they don't.

Either way, they've guaranteed that someone is going to take exception.

What a bloody mess they've created.

Yes to all this.

Part of Helen's strength is her calmness and articulation. She comes across as educated, bright, and informed. As she would!

I mean this is what is so very galling. This is the level of intellect being brought to the table to take away all women's universal sex based rights to single sex spaces. This???

I'm glad it's Helen doing it, but yes. It's bloody scandalous. I genuinely thought the entire thing would be over as soon as the smallest part of it reached mainstream. It's disgraceful that it isn't. I just goes to show how far the juggernaut had gone.

And i'm sure a male individual being able to show that their passport actually claims that they are female, is going to be news to an awful lot of people watching that show.

Wait till they hear about birth certificates.

And the fact that you don't need any kind of surgery, hormones, or anything to change it.

innocent-and-naive-as-a-lamb-in-snow, and have no idea just why a man would want to access female spaces!

Well, ironically India themself told women one of the reasons why. For India's own personal validation. At an airport, they determinedly walked straight past the mixed sex toilets, to find a woman only toilet in the back of beyond, and then boasted about it on Twitter.

Yes, "if I was a headteacher, I would be anticipating legal action," is a clear statement and hard to pick holes in. Am sure that will have helped underline the inevitability of conflict resulting from a lack of consultation and engagement.

Thanks corgi.

Also, Advice here is a recent thread about it.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4714523-1-in-585-trans-women-are-convicted-sex-offenders?reply=122883649

Thanks for YouTube link. Helen did really well.

IW contradicted herself or changed her mind about single sex schools - first it was of course kids with grcs should stay in the school for their sex, then it was of course they should be in the school for their legal sex. HJ didn't get to point out the implications of having teens who are physically male but legally female at a girls school, especially if other kids and parents aren't supposed to know. How any school will manage accommodation on trips, school sports teams, whatever... HJ's point that whatever a school did was likely to be illegal was well made, because this is such a mess.

@Violetparis letparis: Just caught the end of an interview with Jonathan Reynolds, Labour MP on Sky News. He said Labours position was to keep single sex spaces in line with the Equality Act. That's the clearest I've heard a Labour MP speak on this issue. He definitely said single sex rather than safe spaces.

@LizzieSiddal iddal: I also caught Shami Chakrabarti on R4 this am, agreeing that, whilst she agreed in principle with new SNP law, she thinks it would be in conflict with the Equality Act and the Government would be right to send it for a review!

Add to this Anneliese Dodds on The Westminster Hour on Radio 4 last night. She was asked to explain the differences between Keir Starmer's recent intervention and the support Scottish Labour provided in the passing of the GRR Bill by the Scottish Parliament. She used as a figleaf that Scottish Labour had pushed for support of the Equality Act 2010. I don't think Labour have changed their minds about this but they are realising that they have to be public about their position and that there are some things that they do support and others that they don't. (They'll do this is the most weaselly way possible, of course, relying on the confusion about the interaction between a GRC and EA single sex exceptions.)

Just thinking about the Olivia person on Politics Live, she was so out of touch that she hadn’t realised her own leader has raised concerns about the Scottish legislation. She made herself look absolutely idiotic.

Schools

Thank you for the link.

Susanna Reid’s body language at the introduction to the interview clearly showed that she’s on team Helen Joyce.

Can anyone make out what’s written on the poster behind IW? “CUT THR…”? I couldn’t read it.

The passport being thrust in front of the camera was a deliberate, obvious attempt to detract attention from the single-sex school’s issue. IW didn’t want to answer the question.

I mean this is what is so very galling. This is the level of intellect being brought to the table to take away all women's universal sex based rights to single sex spaces. This???

This is what enrages me. Helen is so intelligent, I feel furious that she has to waste her time arguing with idiots. She has a PhD in maths, she was an editor on the Economist, there are a whole load of things she could be doing with her life, but instead she has to argue over basic incontrovertible facts with morons. I imagine this is how Galileo must have felt.

Wow, Helen Joyce is so good. They let Willoughby set the tone at first, I was wondering how she’d respond effectively to all the emotive nonsense, and she straight up punctured it.

Like sticking a pin into a balloon full of hot air.

She owned the whole thing after that; it was amazing.

Willoughby was awful, but, I think, only seemed so bad because Joyce was so good. Not the brightest, to put it mildly, but does have a lot of TV experience after all and was fairly effective in the sad wibble lip quiver think of the poor confused children section at the start, before HJ spoke.

"Just watched it. Thank god Susanna Reid jumped in with the 'privacy concerns' when IW started waving the passport at the TV. It was super annoying. I'm sure she knew it.
I mean this is what is so very galling. This is the level of intellect being brought to the table to take away all women's universal sex based rights to single sex spaces. This???"

Grateful that India was waving about a passport, and not their supposed cervix.

Just watched it. Thank god Susanna Reid jumped in with the 'privacy concerns' when IW started waving the passport at the TV. It was super annoying. I'm sure she knew it.

I mean this is what is so very galling. This is the level of intellect being brought to the table to take away all women's universal sex based rights to single sex spaces. This???

My god. And then the ridiculous "soooo how, hoooooow are meeeeenz self-identifing ever a threat to women?? I-was-born-yesterday-as-innocent-and-naive-as-a-lamb-in-snow, and have no idea just why a man would want to access female spaces! I mean think of the effort?!"

Well yes, you have to fill in a certificate and pay a few quid to get unfettered access to women's spaces for life and even get locked up with them in prison if caught sex offending, there to further hone your predatory skills. I mean why would you do that? No benefits there!

Then the ridiculous "My passport, my passport, do you see my PASSPORT?? It means I'm one of you"

I mean mines well out of date. Where does that leave me then?

I don't know how Helen Joyce remained so calm. She was steller.

Oh and I did so enjoy the cameo by Robin Moria "definitely not got their bundles in a twist" White.

👋

You should do more tele 🍻

I'm in the Labour Party, and people like Olivia just damage our own side.

I wish Helen Joyce had been on that panel too, just for fun.