Keir Starmer fudge fudge waffle waffle

I have no sympathy at all. He wants to lead the country allegedly. You dont become a leader by sitting on the fence of something this important. Half the country will be impacted.
Such a coward. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Fudging this issue as he always has is a cowardly thing.

If he doesnt have the backbone to stand up for women/against what 3% of the population then he doesnt have what it takes to lead the country. I think this is very important and a lot stands on woman meaning woman not swirly fluttery feelings.
He might think it's not important and he is wrong, so again not leader of the country material.

I expect someone who would like to lead the country to have some clue. He doesnt or is too scared, again a scared man cannot lead the country. Whichever way I look at this he is not the right man.

I think it's good - the progress has been slow but steady, and progress is being made. Think about this discourse even just 3 years ago, this issue was hidden away, the only people caring about it being rampant transphobes. Lisa Nandy was saying she thought male rapists should be allowed to go to female prisons if they wanted to. Starmer was in favour of self id, it was one of their promises

Today on the BBC Starmer categorically said 16 was too young, going directly against the new Scottish law passed by Labour MSPs. And he said that there were issues with the EA - Labour MSPs put forward amendments about this and they were rejected. I know they still voted to pass the bill but it wasn't straightforward. Labour now know that this is much more complicated than 'be kind'. Keir is waffling and fudging because he knows there is a problem here, but things are moving in the right direction.

I understand this as he supports self-ID for 18+.

What "indiginities"? Compared to what? Applying for benefits if you're disabled? I don't fucking think so.

Self-ID. That's his policy. Pretending women have been behaving like TRAs. That's his approach. That's what he thinks of women and children.

I'll never vote for this. No, no, and no.

twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1614557832728444934?s=46&t=pre3yKmaZSTo_Byw99Ecig

“Doesn’t have a point of view
knows not where he’s going to “

I hate that it's always bloody men asked about this. Ask us women, it affects us. We should be on a working committee deciding what's right and wrong. Mens feelings shouldn't come into this. Because that's what's caused this whole shit show, a few men deciding they'd like to play at being women, coming from their place of male advantage to demand rights which we've had to fight fucking hard for!

I had to explain to my 18 year old son today that if he takes his little sister shopping he may have to let her go in to changing rooms where there could be fully biological men who could rape her and because they 'identify' as women won't be able to be charged with rape and their crime will go down as violent sexual assault by a woman on a minor.

Starmer would do well to listen to that as JK USED to be a major Labour Party donor.

The indignities in the system for women include rape and exclusion.

It's a little worse than a beaurocratic process or the suggestion of third spaces.

This is still, always and exclusively, phrased referencing the feelings and needs and experiences of men and with extreme double standards not applied to women. Starmer is as heavily misogynist as the liberal left is to its core. I'm starting to think there is no party not.

Mark Harper just brought up JKR and said how badly she had been treated (which, even though he is an arse, Brian Cox also said). So good that the commentary on this is becoming more balanced.

There's a little progress in that he stated that he thinks 16 is too young (despite the fact Labour MSPs voted for it). That allows a discussion about infertility, double mastectomies and the dangerous impacts on growing bodies and minds of puberty blockers. Also allows the dodgy nature of the groups currently gaslighting the young to be highlighted. So it opens a door.
The latest sleight of hand is to use "safe spaces" instead of single sex spaces. So that needs challenging.
No mention of TWAW, but the usual attempts to silence women describing "toxic" debates.
Good that the BBC are (finally) challenging this - can't wait to see someone with a grip of the nuances to challenge Starmer for his feeble thinking.

I do have some sympathy with Starmer though. I think the centre/left voter population really is split on this issue. Many (not all) of my nice, intelligent friends and colleagues have pronouns on their emails etc. So I kind of don't blame him sitting on the fence for now and letting the Tories sort it out.

I'm actually heartened that Starmer isn't definitely placing himself on the self ID side. I think he gets the issues but knows it's toxic.

When he says he "wants to modernise the system and is looking at all options" I think in practice they would go for something similar to the Tories i.e. keep the GRC rules pretty much as they are now. I may be wrong though.

I would still vote Labour / Lib Dem over the Tories if there was an election tomorrow (sorry)

Great that Laura K said there had been lots of emails from women about this but why didn’t she ask him what these “indignities” in the current system are that he kept referencing? If you were watching without much knowledge of the debate you’d be mislead by this description.

That's what KJK has said she's going to do later this year, mainly to bring direct plain speaking to the forefront.

She was going to stand against Eddie Izzard if he had been selected as Sheffield's parliamentary candidate, but has now said she wants to stand against Sir Keir - not expecting to win, but to force the obvious conversation.

Working title is 'the other party' but she has said she might change that.

I wouldn't tell Starmer the right time.

I'll open the betting book now that if Sunak does nothing about Scotland, and swallows the lies, lies and more lies that Stonewall are busy charmingly feeding him, and we enter a period of utter hell for women, children and homosexuals...?

That when it all goes up in flames and we have politicians queueing up to condemn it, bloody Labour will be right at the front to say how it was all the Tory party and nothing to do with them gov, they were on whichever side suited them devoid of any kind of morals the right side all the time.

We're going to have to set up a party of our own to have anyone to vote for.

Every time he gets a splinter up his arse from the fence he's sitting on, he's losing votes. I just don’t understand why he doesn't do the math - especially now with the census numbers - of why he's actively going out of his way to lose the votes of 51% of the population.

Brian Cox also talking shite.