Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Times: Sunak preparing to block Scottish gender reform bill

90 replies

ResisterRex · 13/01/2023 22:11

Sunak preparing to block Scottish gender reform bill

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c845bae2-9377-11ed-beb4-99fcdfa7645c?shareToken=217d9586d687af757742096583505820

"Rishi Sunak is poised to block Scottish laws that make it easier for people to change their gender, in an unprecedented move that will provoke a constitutional row.

The Times has been told that new legal advice will pave the way for the government to stop Nicola Sturgeon’s gender recognition laws from getting royal assent next week.

The advice states that the legislation will have an adverse impact on UK-wide equality legislation, enabling ministers to block it. The government will make its case on technical and legal grounds but ministers have repeatedly expressed concerns about the potential impact of the Scottish legislation.

Sunak will make a final decision with Alister Jack, the Scotland secretary, next week on invoking section 35 of the 1998 Scotland Act, which will prohibit Holyrood’s presiding officer from submitting the bill for royal assent. The Times has been told that they will follow the legal advice."

Continues at link

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 14/01/2023 14:20

MarshaBradyo · 14/01/2023 13:57

Why anyone would trust SNP or Labour not to sign away women’s rights is ignoring what’s going on

Just blind to reality

Distrusting the Tories doesn't equate to trusting not Tories.

(Ponders to oneself ... is it distrust, or mistrust ?)

MarshaBradyo · 14/01/2023 13:57

Why anyone would trust SNP or Labour not to sign away women’s rights is ignoring what’s going on

Just blind to reality

SerendipityJane · 14/01/2023 13:54

Anyone who trusts the Tories to deliver on promises to women, needs to look at their track record on delivering on promises to anyone who isn't a wealthy crony donor and then read the fable of the scorpion and the frog.

MarshaBradyo · 14/01/2023 13:41

I haven’t followed it much but I did hear a decision needs to be made this week. So they can’t kick the can

Or it could go to Supreme Court

I have mixed feelings, I very much feel for women in Scotland who don’t want this but can also see that they’ll be backlash from MSPs over it

ArabellaScott · 14/01/2023 13:36

LizzieSiddal · 14/01/2023 10:44

Such good news.

I was wondering on the implications for Labour, if the legal advice is that this law will infringe on the Equality Act, will it mean Labour will have to rethink their policy to introduce self ID?

That is something we all should bear in mind!

I don't see this badly made Bill becoming law, tbh - the broader question and issues for the longer term are how its all going to impact on the EA and the GRA.

One would hope that the issues/problems with the two laws have been highlighted, but I don't know if there's enough appetite to actually fix them without this kind of legislative pressure.

Politicians will be quite happy to leave the mess of the two conflicting Acts as is unless they're forced somehow to sort it all out, and pretend that the existing Sex Fudge works fine.

OP posts:
Original poster
ResisterRex · 14/01/2023 11:20

Charles Moore in the Telegraph

"Any move whose main motivation was political would backfire and would deserve to do so. This is Ms Sturgeon’s mistake. The Government should not mirror it.
So the question confrontingg_ Rishi Sunak’s Government is important, but quite narrow. It is not, “Mustn’t the SNP be prevented from introducing such sex-change madness?” It is “Does the GRR exceed the rights of a devolved legislature by enacting a provision that would have a material, adverse impact on the operation of the law throughout the United Kingdom?”
If it thinks the answer to that second question is “Yes”, the Government’s clearest remedy is to invoke Section 35 of the Scotland Act 1998. That would not kill the Bill outright but would force the Scottish government to negotiate with London alterations which would make it compatible with the Act."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/13/nicola-sturgeons-trans-law-constitutional-mischief-not-another/

OP posts:
LlynTegid · 14/01/2023 11:15

I am not 100% sure it will happen. Rishi Sunak and his incompetent government have a track record of talking not doing in many areas.

I will be pleased if I am wrong and it is blocked.

LizzieSiddal · 14/01/2023 10:44

Such good news.

I was wondering on the implications for Labour, if the legal advice is that this law will infringe on the Equality Act, will it mean Labour will have to rethink their policy to introduce self ID?

Original poster
ResisterRex · 14/01/2023 10:23

Those who are angry at England's interference are in the difficult position of saying they'd rather have independence than women have equality of rights to men in Scotland. It's that simple.

Speaking of which...

SNP ready to row back on de facto referendum

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c1551c5c-9398-11ed-8b99-f233af7a7956?shareToken=b90c63115b5b082752902413a2450409

OP posts:
nilsmousehammer · 14/01/2023 10:19

If Sunak does have the backbone to do this, the wave of thank God for the 7th Cavalry publicity and evidence from women and girls in Scotland is going to be hard to brush aside.

Those who are angry at England's interference are in the difficult position of saying they'd rather have independence than women have equality of rights to men in Scotland. It's that simple. No one can support all this stuff as it stands at the moment without in essence, supporting male supremacism. Currently a lot of people are trying hard to identify out of this bit.

Original poster
ResisterRex · 14/01/2023 10:11

Sonia Sodha:

https://twitter.com/soniasodha/status/1614168319824642048?s=46&t=OvS7wCXiVHwppp17olRgQQ

"Who knows what political implications would be. But in passing its gender reforms the Scottish parliament exceeded its competence because they will impact on the rights of Scottish women and girls as laid out by Equality Act, a UK matter."

(With the article in the OP)

Then:

https://twitter.com/soniasodha/status/1614170998894465025?s=46&t=OvS7wCXiVHwppp17olRgQQ

"And a revealing interview in which the male chair of Stonewall reveals he doesn’t understand equalities law and seems to accuse women of “politicising” their rights 🙄"

Which is this - may need its own thread!

"“[The GRR act] is allowing someone to change their birth certificate to access the health and benefits system — they can live, work, thrive and die with the dignity that they would wish for. It will not,” he insists, “change regulations around single-sex spaces for women, in prisons and elsewhere.”

Nor, apparently, is he alarmed by the data showing that about two thirds of the 5,000 referrals to gender clinics in England and Wales are adolescent biological girls, when years ago there were only 250 referrals in total, boys and girls. Since we know the human brain matures at 26, can he understand the critics who believe that allowing teenagers to change sex at 16 risks doing them irreparable emotional and physical damage?

“We have made a decision to allow people to do a whole bunch of things at 16,” he says, not least allowing them to join the army. But he doesn’t dwell on the topic, moving the discussion on to “conversion therapy”, the discrediting, degrading treatments that attempt to “cure” people’s sexuality.

“The UK actually needs a strategy for trans people rather than a tabloid war,” he says. “We are just going round in circles and people’s lives are being politicised.

"Women’s rights are being politicised in this sense, and I want to try and take the temperature down and actually develop some serious dialogue and serious conversations.”"

‘The UK needs a strategy for trans people rather than a tabloid war’: Iain Anderson interview

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3b5a2b68-9390-11ed-8b99-f233af7a7956?shareToken=33ec67b505f6ef037d67f9565eb25dc5

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 14/01/2023 09:44

It is now undeniably on mainstream news. The sunlight is pouring in.

I am appalled at the way the people of Scotland have been treated by pushing through this act.

It has shown that the SNP and Scottish Greens cannot be trusted to listen to their constituents and will steamroller through ideologically driven laws. And lie.

In saying that, the world is watching. They are taking note of the impacts on these laws as they are now going to be discussed in media and hopefully in law courts.

We see the ripple of these cases every time. Look at the world wide changes and awareness that Bell vs Tavistock brought. With so much effort from Keira (thank you again Keira).

I suspect that people in countries like Ireland, some Australian states and Canada will be looking hard at this case and then working out what their governments have pushed through without them being fully aware. The pushback grows much stronger with these ripples.

I only wish it was not happening at all though, that there was no need for it to happen in the first place.

SerendipityJane · 14/01/2023 09:32

AnyFucker · 13/01/2023 22:19

@NotRightNowNo you have it spot on

Nicola Sturgeon is happy to throw women and children under the bus to get what she wants

I feel sorry for the Scottish people

Well she's only reflecting a UK government that is happy to throw everyone under the bus to stay in power.

I feel sorry for everyone in the UK.

Original poster
ResisterRex · 14/01/2023 09:30

RhannionKPSS · 14/01/2023 00:20

Did you see the Mermaids are going to be involved in further NHS training? Don’t know how to link but it’s in The Telegraph. Please get this news about this appalling state of affairs out there.

Here but the headline is a little confused!

archive.ph/ZqtjI

OP posts:
MagpiePi · 14/01/2023 08:42

I’ve found the BBC is focusing on the constitutional aspect of blocking this Scottish bill and giving very little airtime to why it needs to be blocked.

Original poster
ResisterRex · 14/01/2023 08:39

This will be the biggest dose of sunlight ever. It's already cropping up in the news bulletins.

It was on quite a bit of rolling news yesterday, I think? I feel like I caught it on Sky and maybe the BBC too?

OP posts:
Birdsweepsin · 14/01/2023 08:36

It strikes me that Sunak pushing this particular button will force everyone in Politics off their fences.

You can't just say 'be kind'. Do you support Westminster or Holyrood?

This will be the biggest dose of sunlight ever. It's already cropping up in the news bulletins.

Maisy37 · 14/01/2023 07:02

Idonotcareforcarrots · 14/01/2023 01:02

I’m in Scotland, no fan of Nicola Sturgeon though or Rishi Sunak either to be fair, but thank fuck if Westminster are going to put a block on this.
I would like to think that any sane woman who previously supported Independence would think again if supporting SNP means you accept that a man saying he is a woman, magically makes him one with access to all women’s spaces.

Exactly this, I’m a Scottish woman who voted yes in 2014. I even have a sodding selfie with Nicola Sturgeon! The biggest betrayal I feel. The rights of women and girls are non negotiable for me.
with some exceptions ( hi Joanna Cherry) the SNP are a disgrace.
the block to the bill has to happen. I suspect we are collateral damage and the inevitable “ oh Westminster are so mean” is the plan but I am filled with a rage so fierce…. bring it on

RhannionKPSS · 14/01/2023 01:51

The women and girls in Scotland are the canaries in the mine in this and the women & girls in Wales will be next if it’s not stopped in its tracks very soon.

Idonotcareforcarrots · 14/01/2023 01:02

I’m in Scotland, no fan of Nicola Sturgeon though or Rishi Sunak either to be fair, but thank fuck if Westminster are going to put a block on this.
I would like to think that any sane woman who previously supported Independence would think again if supporting SNP means you accept that a man saying he is a woman, magically makes him one with access to all women’s spaces.

AnotherDayAnotherView · 14/01/2023 00:49

Anyone who believes that a man can become a woman or vice versa should be sectioned under the Mental Health Act.

Number of people worldwide who have changed sex = 0

Thelnebriati · 14/01/2023 00:44

Archived link; archive.ph/BOgDF

RhannionKPSS · 14/01/2023 00:20

Did you see the Mermaids are going to be involved in further NHS training? Don’t know how to link but it’s in The Telegraph. Please get this news about this appalling state of affairs out there.

Abccde · 14/01/2023 00:10

Igmum · 13/01/2023 22:37

Good. I've been desperately worried that we would get self-ID via the back door.

My understanding is that I could easily get a GRC as could my DH.

We live in England.

Just one example of how it impacts the UK, but the greatest impact would be on the Equality Act in Scotland itself which is a reserved act.

My mum, mum in law, my sisters in law and nieces deserve equality in Scotland.