Politics Live 10 Jan - Scottish Gender Reform Bill - will it be blocked by Westminster?

With ELO's posts on the transmaxxing thread, and this interaction from White, I think there is a concerted move to somehow disconnect the sexual aspect of transitioning from the 'reasonable' males.

Of course, the fact is that it doesn't matter whether they exist or not.

So much has already been invested in 'acceptance only' that it will yet again make the groups look ridiculous to turn and say 'no, not them!!! Just us! We are different!' if they try. It would be another 'born in the wrong body moment' but on a much larger scale.

And if RMW doesn't think that DH is really trans, then why hell use female pronouns. Is RMW worried about misgendering??

Because how could it even be misgendering if DH isn't trans??

it's absolute jibber jabber, isn't it?

And if I had a pound for every time a transwoman said that they, and only they, qualify as trans. From surgery, to passing, to longevity, to which pretend sexual orientation they are.

The self serving inconsistencies are never ending.

NRTFT but just from the OP, the suggestion in OP that new Scottish GRA could be stopped from being accepted in the rest of UK seems unworkable since it seems inherent in GRA a that pretty much nobody can ask to see a GRA..

I don't think RMW is doing the TRA argument any favours here. If RMW thinks Debbie Hayton isn't really trans, what are the rest of us supposed to think? Are we to treat Debbie as female, referring to Debbie as "she", allowing Debbie into female toilets and changing rooms etc? Or are we to take RMW's word for it and decide that Debbie isn't really trans after all?

Because up to now we've been told that no gatekeeping is allowed - everyone who says they're trans IS trans. Now, it seems, gatekeeping IS allowed. So who decides?

Oh is that what was being angled at?

100% Winter Trees.

WinterTrees · Today 11:16
This is the patriarchy in action. Privilege in plain sight. It's quite striking to watch.

Absolutely. It is the patriarchy personified with nothing feminine whatsoever about it.

Very striking. Laughable if it were not so extraordinarily outrageous.

I'm not here much at the moment, but have just caught up on this and watched the clip posted upthread. One of the things that jumped out at me was Sonia's visible eagerness to get all her information, evidence and expertise across in a comprehensive way. She is immensely calm, but almost shaking with adrenaline, knowing she has SO MUCH evidence to support her argument. You can almost hear her head whirring as she tries to select which point to make, knowing she doesn't have long before she's cut off.

RMW on the other hand looks bored and speaks slowly, playing for time, repeating tired old non-arguments and introducing silly hypotheticals ('if I was gay I wouldn't have to go in front of a panel') to derail the argument. RMW is drawing on a lifetime of socialisation and relying on the privilege that RMW is automatically afforded as a transwoman which means RMW is not likely to be shut down before RMW has finished speaking.

This is the patriarchy in action. Privilege in plain sight. It's quite striking to watch.

Ooohh. richard. You apparently have used the magical ‘feminist’ jargon word ‘gatekeeping’ that ELO told us was not used elsewhere!!!

Is RMW gatekeeping trans by any chance?

It is simply a delight to watch the inconsistencies spring forth.

Less a delight is the way misogyny behind the tweets about Sonia and Helen. Yet they too are a sign that sunlight is streaming through the cracks. And cannot transform misogyny into anything but misogyny.

It's about truth and respect of others.

Couldn't make it up, could you?!

RMW to DH: "No.
It’s about truth and respect of others."

Seems the acid test of trans authenticity isn't self ID at all. It's agreement with RMW.

More broadly, (according to TRA logic) you cannot be authentically trans and be honest about scientific facts.

Or is there about to be a split in the trans community and this is the early signalling for it?

That would be useful. At least it would give autogynephilia the overdue public airing it needs. Or 'some paraphilia' as RMW would euphemistically have it.

That thread! Seems the acid test of trans authenticity isn't self ID at all. It's agreement with RMW.

Indeed old crone. It is almost like the logic has failed but the barrister has not realised yet…

Or is there about to be a split in the trans community and this is the early signalling for it?

I've no idea if RW thinks Hayton is a woman, but this is one of RW's tweets:

I’ve read Debbie’s stuff. No trans person could write what she does.

twitter.com/moira_robin/status/1613067625881288704

'She' as a pronoun for Hayton, but insists Hayton isn't trans.

So Hayton's not trans, but they are still a woman? With pronouns? So according to RMW, is Hayton to be denied any thing trans related?

Or do they get all the access that White enjoys, and being called a woman, but not a transwoman?

I mean, I know logic never enters the equation, but that's taking the biscuit!

twitter.com/_crymiariver/status/1613178538752114688?s=46&t=UsLGbSftBkDXod4F2HOKhg

@WallaceinAnderland seems we have all stopped laughing these days. But I proper guffawwed. Thank you. Needed that!

Sonia is pure class. I love her!

@Datun yes indeed :) I think I have more respect for Hayton, at least saying it out loud. It is the only thing that makes any sense to me.

That's not exactly what RW said. RW said that Hayton isn't really trans, not that Hayton isn't a woman (interestingly, RW still uses 'she' when referring to Hayton).

So it seems that according to RW, someone who says their transition is driven by a fetish isn't really trans. Someone who says they regret their transition, or who RW believes to regret their transition (even if they haven't said they do), isn't really trans. RW doesn't explain how RW knows what other people are thinking. Perhaps it's like Layla Moran being able to see souls.

And yet RW also believes in self ID, which says that everyone who says they're trans is trans. Totally contradictory.