Helen Joyce on Triggernometry

Thanks for the link, I've just watched the interview and as others have said, HJ is so very calm and clear in what she says.

I really try to say 'Men who call themselves women' or 'Men who want to / want us to pretend they are women' in place of transwomen when I have real life conversations because it clarifies the issue.

I also hadn't thought of her point that the erotic cross dressers are not necessarily just about the fetish - they may also have a body dysmorphic problem co existing. I tended to think of it as either/or.

Great interview

I agree. She is such an important voice. I listen to her talk a lot so I was aware of her eloquence and clear articulation. But the thing that made me stop and think was when she said if you decide to speak on this topic you cannot speak on anything else, because you will become unemployable. I know we know this. But for me it heightens the sacrifices these women are making. I find I feel humbled and resolve to do whatever I can do to support them.

It was stark when she said -the doctors didn't consult women - or something like that. There are ethical issues behind many medical treatments that impact society. I was listening to a discussion about egg freezing on R4 this morning. This subject can lead into all sorts of avenues in which humans are vulnerable to those who would make profit from them. We need the ethicists to have more influence in human activity without the profit motive. Digressing, like I always do......

I was also impressed with Oli London - wish him well. He seems to have clarity and I hope he finds peace with himself.

I've watched about a third so far. She is so extraordinarily eloquent. I was very glad that she started by talking about this as a mathematical issue and the problem of circular definitions, because this is something that has bothered me a lot. Once you start changing the definition of something that has significance in law, to the point where the definition no longer has a clear boundaried meaning, then you will inevitably cause problems.

It was interesting too the way she talked about the importance in critical race theory of having a firm boundary between white and black people that white people can never cross, while in queer theory you have the opposite - a belief that boundaries are fluid.

Sall Grover on Twitter said that, in terms of ability to form a cogent, persuasive argument, she is similar to the late Christopher Hitchens. An interesting comparison, I thought.

I agree on the points re Oli. It appeared to be a very rapid turnaround and he said he was over his addiction to the surgery and I'm afraid I not convinced and I did. It difficult to believe something so serious can be overcome in a matter of a few short months, but maybe it's possible. I hope so.

I think he is an example of a vulnerable young man falling for a version of this online affirmation and now he can barely move the muscles in his face. I saw him on GB News recently re self ID in Scotland and he did come across as sensible and informed.

I have yet to watch all of the Helen Joyce interview but god she's good, I've enjoyed the first 20 mins. What others take 10 mins to say she can say in 1 so the rest will continue to be jam packed I'm sure.

Thank you! Looking forward to listening later when I'm doing some jobs.

Anything with Helen Joyce is a great listen.

I found myself very concerned for Oli London. He seems really vulnerable and his detransition seems to be so recent for him.

I saw the trailer for this interview and I am looking forward to watching it tomorrow

Helen Joyce is so articulate.

Thanks so much OP, excellent interview!

I actually really enjoyed the oli london one... I actually kind of respect him after that. He sat there and admitted 'i fucked up'. He also had interesting insights into the affects of social media... He also talked a fair bit about the problem of paedophilia at the moment and the sexualisation of kids.

I actually found him to be humble, honest, insightful and surpisingly intelligent.

I think we have got to permit people to admit they fucked up. It takes courage to do that. He said his driving force was he felt very guilty about potentially influencing people to have stupid surgeries.

I just listened though, i didnt watch. I imagine that would have been weirder.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668426-petition-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex?page=1

Link to petition she mentions at the end.

I couldn't get all the way through the Oli London one. He talks so quickly and in an almost rehearsed manner. What a fast turnaround from "transracial" to where he is now. It all feels really off. Maybe he just is that damaged and susceptible to influence.

Saving the Helen Joyce one for in the car later this week

It was really good, she does no waffling and gets straight to the point.

Thanks for the link. Look forward to watching. Helen Joyce always gets the point across

Thank you for the link. Really worth watching.

She is stunning in her intellect and brave in her delivery.

I really do love how straightforward she is, it's so refreshing. She is not pissing about.

The Trig boys do have some brilliant guests on (and Ollie London who was mentioned was great too, though for different reasons and I fear is is quite damaged, but I found him honest and likeable).