All women/women and transwomen. How do the dynamics change?

Things like this always make me think of the croquet club that was established in Wimbledon, London in 1868. It was a popular club, but in 1877, it was decided that they would start playing tennis as well.

The club is still going strong and is now massive. It's still named in honour of both sports. Go into the street anywhere in Britain now and ask people - Family Fortunes-style - which sport they associate with the big world-famous sports club based in Wimbledon. Guess what the top answer would be.

@pippabg

Here's an example of what I mean. Here's the story of Princess Mom, who used a female pregnancy group to role play pregnancy and even more grim, stillbirth. Egged on by some truly idiotic women, while women, including at least one who had actually suffered a stillbirth, who objected to the insensitivity were kicked out.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/princess-mom

Also, as it is not even a formal women's charity/group, I don't think there is much reasonable basis to deny them.

That doesn't make sense. If it's essentially a friendship-based group, nothing would be easier than to simply say they'd rather keep it to the existing circle of friends/only take in new people already well known to the majority of members. There's no right of admission to a group of friends.

A women's sports group had a TW join. They were obviously not female from the way they posted about how great they were all the time, how they were going to compete here and there and get to the Olympics. The rest of the group just ignored the posts after a while. Thankfully they left. Apparently chapter meet ups were difficult with the TW.demanding attention and dominating the talk, most of which was off topic.

Also, as it is not even a formal women's charity/group, I don't think there is much reasonable basis to deny them.

I don't think this is correct, they would have to adhere to the Equality Act more if it were a more formal group.

You're extraordinarily naive about why some of these male people want to join women's groups.

as it is not even a formal women's charity/group, I don't think there is much reasonable basis to deny them.

Er, that's quite the wrong way round! Do you think that if some random bloke chaps on your door you are obliged to let him in because it's your house, not a public building?

There are protections against discrimination in law for people with the protected characteristics. These do not apply to a group of pals meeting up, or informal social situations like clubs, dating, parties, etc.

With respect, you sound lovely, and I hope you find MN a great place for support during your pregnancy, but your post is naive.

Fortunately here you can talk openly about your experiences with your own womanhood i.e pregnancy. How would you feel if you were in a women’s group that asked you not to refer to your pregnancy because it hurt someone else’s feelings? This has happened time and time again especially in online support spaces where women have been hounded for not using ‘inclusive’ language.

You may also be a little surprised by how many women in their 20s and 30s keep their heads down and say nothing because they are intimidated by the be kind brigade.

I think you will also find on this board that the unkind women are actually sticking up for all females who may some day have a need to access single sex spaces.

Just want to mention that I'm also in my 30s, joined MN when I was 21, and I believe in female-only facilities.

Please don't assume that everyone under 40 is pro-mixed sex groups all of the time.

It's just a group of female friends isn't it? You happen to have this charity in common, but essentially you're meeting because you enjoy each others company. If the only purpose was to raise money you could do that by email.

It's a female friend group and someone wants their male friend to join. My teens would have called them a scrape back in the day

There's been loads of posts on MN about someone inviting a new mum to other mum things, then the new mum wants their dh to come as well and the dynamic totally changes.

If you value your group op, say no to the man.

They target, infiltrate then destroy.

All they ever did was post photos of themselves in leather miniskirts and red lipstick and the majority of the women would fawn over them and tell them how beautiful they were

Why do some women do this? Seriously?
How can they not see this man is very clearly using the group as participants in his sexual paraphilia?

I find this so sad to read. There are so many stereotypes here about the behaviour of men and women and transpeople. I'm going to be the one dissenting voice and say that I, as a woman and feminst, would welcome them. Any body who aligns themselves with women and women's issues is a sister of mine. Transpeople just want to exist and be accepted like everyone else. Some kindness wouldn't go amiss.

I had reservations about joining Mumsnet because of its reputation for being anti-trans/trans exclusionary, but I am pregnant with my first child and needed some support. I don't want to start arguments, everyone is entitled to their perspective, but I wanted it to be known that not all woman, and most of the woman in their 30s that I know, do not feel like this. To the OP, please don't assume that all women think the same. Also, as it is not even a formal women's charity/group, I don't think there is much reasonable basis to deny them.

This also is worth noting. Nobody has ever asked to join before, and the only person who has asked is male?

What is it about this group of women that has seemed attractive, I wonder?

I should 'be fair' and say it was only ever put across as a group for make-up not a woman only space but when I joined it was just women (cunty type) and after the TW joined it became a space for women to tell a man in a leather miniskirt how gorgeous he was.

I used to be in a facebook group. I actually was told about the group on here, some people will know which group I mean (it was "main" MN, not this sub). It was for make-up and beauty products and when I first jointed it was amazing. A TW joined and instantly it changed. All they ever did was post photos of themselves in leather miniskirts and red lipstick and the majority of the women would fawn over them and tell them how beautiful they were. It utterly changed the group. I left.

I don't think you can really call it a 'women's group' if that is not the purpose of the group. What you are really asking is whether a group of women would be happy to welcome a trans woman in their group. That's a very different question.

I do think those pp who’ve asked how the TW found out have a point. It might have been through the charity, but more likely through someone newish in the group.

Sounds very plausible. TWAW women often do this in female groups. They sometimes deliberately target them.

It'll probably completely change the dynamic of the group, as I think everyone has already pointed out.

I suppose the issue is how you go about making the decision and communicating it. Its possible a refusal may also affect the dynamic of the group, and things may change whether or not you accept them.

Bit of a tricky situation that would be avoided if we all accepted that women can have their own spaces, without question.

Bear in mind too, that if you allow one specific male to join on the basis that "X knows them and they're really nice" or whatever - that then sets a precedent, and you will no longer have grounds to refuse any other male who wants to join, even if they are not vouched for in the same way and not "really nice".

Is it specifically a women only group OP, or do all the members just happen to be female?

If there's no reason to keep it women only then there's no reason to not let any interested man join.

There are lots of feminine men / gentle men / quiet men / gender non-comforming men, or whatever other criteria you feel means you should consider admitting this particular subset of male people.

Either a group is mixed sex or it's not - I see no reason why you would segregate by "gender".

And from personal experience (book group), the male member did change the way we discussed things.

He clearly hated it when we talked about our female lived experience and so, without actually talking about it we gradually stopped doing that.

Men who want access to a group of women from which other men are excluded make me particularly uncomfortable. Especially given the new census data which reveals that men who identify as women are 5-7 times more likely than ordinary men to be sex offenders.

I'd be quitting the group if I were part of it, women only means just that.