Help with ASD DS and non-binary

All this debate here about trans women, I'm finding it quite interesting now... what do people think of trans men, out of interest?

Have you come across the idea of social contagion being a factor? The number of adolescent girls seeking gender care has gone up massively over the last few years.

If I remember right it says only half of autistic afab people (in one study of 250 people) reported being cisgender and 70% in another study weren't heterosexual

Age ranges covered by study?

"AFAB" only makes sense as a term when referring to babies born with ambiguous anatomy, who were literally "assigned" by staff.

These days, any baby born with ambiguous genitalia would be genetically tested to determine his or her sex for certain.

Trans people unhappy with their sex did not have it "assigned". They had it observed. That's how come you are even able to call random women in studies "AFABs" without having to ask them, "excuse me, what did the midwife say your sex was?"

Compare names. Our names are genuinely assigned to us at birth, which is why we have to ask each other what our names are: you can't recognise a Matt from across the street by the way he walks!

Thanks for the article link.

It claims: 'A 2018 study found that almost 70% of people with autism identify as “non-heterosexual” (1)'

but unfortunately the footnote referenced doesn't go anywhere, so I can't see what it was basing that assertion on.

The next footnote which claims that 'A 2020 study of 247 women with autism found that only half of them reported being cisgender and only 8% of them reported being exclusively heterosexual'

seems to eventually go to this study, which is unfortunately paywalled.

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-020-04565-6

It is a tiny sample, in any case.

The trouble is that some of these words - 'cisgender' and 'gender diverse' for example - are just so damn vague they are virtually meaningless.

If 'gender' and 'sex' are conflated or confused then what does 'non-heterosexual' even actually mean?

I think this is quite well known within neurodiverse communities, which is probably where I've heard about it. This article includes some stats and studies.
www.pridecentervt.org/2021/12/22/neurodivergence-in-the-lgbtq-community/

If I remember right it says only half of autistic afab people (in one study of 250 people) reported being cisgender and 70% in another study weren't heterosexual. Oh and because they're women or seen as women, they're infantilised, they aren't listened to or believed. They find it much harder to get medical professionals to diagnose them or see their issues as serious and it's widely acknowledged that women are massively under diagnosed as autistic and ADHD(ADD/inattentive especially). More or less just left to suffer.

All this debate here about trans women, I'm finding it quite interesting now... what do people think of trans men, out of interest? I know it's not the same as trans women, given that men haven't had the historical (and continuing) oppression which women experience, but still. Are trans men generally OK with all types of feminists, I wonder?

I think statistically most neurodiverse people are LBTQ+

On what are you basing this quite startling assertion?

Social transitioning isn't neutral. Read the interim Cass report commissioned by the government.

My advice is to make it clear to your kids that you will love and support them no matter what they are, choose to do or be. You can't influence them one way or another and really it's nothing to do with you, aside from wanting the best for them. I think statistically most neurodiverse people are LBTQ+, it's not a case of people not knowing their own minds.

If they're considering making any biological changes, eg with hormones or surgery then I'd invest in therapy to try to make sure that's a choice they'd be happy with in the long term. If it's more easily reversed stuff dressing differently and pronouns I don't think it's anything to worry about at all. Just an adjustment for you all, which might change in the future or not.

Another thing to add @Mossball is of course the hyperfocus and intense interests that autistic people can have.

Do you and DS talk about autism and this hyperfocus?

I think the focus should be finding a therapist who specialises in body dysmorphic disorder in males. Depending on where you live. Some geographical areas have a big culture of this coupled with lifestyle. It’s a niche area though, but I think this would be an appropriate avenue. One of the key features of BDD is never being satisfied with the results of changes, always needing to change again. If he pursues the non-binary aspect it will just progress to full transgender and further pursuit of never-ending body changes so I agree with avoiding affirmative services at all costs. The Gender Wider Lens podcast with the Dutch detransitioner Teiresias is worth listening to to get a perspective on this.

Failing that, focus on self-acceptance, self- compassion and I agree with FrancescaContini about engaging in real life, finding other interests that aren’t body-related. If he’s going to focus on his body, make his body training focused on something like a sport; weight training for the sake of body modification itself is not healthy at all in my opinion, but if it’s training for something, then that sport becomes the goal. Train to get better at that rather than train to get a certain look.

Good luck.

I've a DC who identified as NB 5 years ago- they are also autistic. This too was influenced by who they were friends with at school. My DC is now at Uni and has told me they no longer identify as NB but is getting backlash from the trans community for this 'betrayal'.

I have always said to my DC that some autistic people (and teens whether neuro divergent or not!) struggle with identity and who they are, and will want to conform to a group to belong and feel acceptance. I encouraged my DC to be proud of their autism and to join a group for young autistic people. I think this has given them a sense of self and belonging.

So my advice is to look into local youth groups that support autistic people and go along to some of those. Other than gym is there any other interests?

If you look around you, many people are NB without even realising it or having to label it or make an issue of it because it just seems to be about what you wear and how you choose to have your hair etc. A

As for deep voice etc - well, he’s a male and can’t do anything about this. Sounds as if he needs to boost his self esteem and stop navel gazing - do some voluntary work? Get a weekend job? Just don’t indulge it. In years to come, he’ll be embarrassed by how self absorbed this all seems to the outside world.

I agree you should steer clear of any group who are happy clappy affirmative about non binary gender identity.

It's not kind to these children to pretend that no one knows what sex they are. It's not achievable for most of them. He sounds like he's just struggling with growing up and going through puberty to me. Even if he took hormones he's still going to obviously be male.

Arabella's suggestions are good.

Hi, OP.

That sounds tricky. I expect your thoughts about the reasons for his unhappiness are spot on.

'Non-binary' is an entirely meaningless term, as far as I can work out. 'Doesn't wholly identify with sexist stereotypes' - who does?!

www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/

genspect.org/