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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Former TRA’s what made you change your mind?

89 replies

PissedOffAmericanWoman · 06/01/2023 16:24

I figured it would be interesting to start a thread about why, if you used to be a traditional transgender advocate, why did you stop? I say traditional because it seems the traditional way is by advocating running over women’s sex based rights to “help” trans people. Most of us know that gender critical people do support trans people but it’s just not the way that the media appreciates because we have boundaries and call out trans people who have a problem with women having boundaries. You know the age old tale.

I used to be a very zealous trans rights advocate. There was once a time I would delightfully verbally assault someone for even so much as not commenting on something.

I can’t say there was one single moment that made me realize things weren’t right though. It was more like a gradually collection of little moments that made me change my mind. If you want to here my side of it feel free to read on the next comment. There’s a lot of moments so I’ll make it a separate post.

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LadyOfTheCanyon · 06/01/2023 17:19

I'm sorry to hear you've had such painful periods OP. They can be completely debilitating.

I too started mine at 10yo in primary school, long before any chats were had with my mother ( who started hers at 14). I was the first girl ( ever, apparently!) at the school to have started her periods so early ( this was 1980) and was paraded in front of my entire CLASS the following day with a "something wonderful has happened to Lady... she's become a WOMAN!" speech.

I wasn't asked or consulted as to whether this was appropriate or wanted, and at 10 I barely knew what the fuck was going on anyway apart from the fact that my tummy hurt and I had blood coming out of me. It was really quite traumatic.

Well, you can imagine the prurient interest and jeering and general bullying that followed. Imagine if we did that when a boy's balls dropped.

PissedOffAmericanWoman · 06/01/2023 17:18

StephanieSuperpowers · 06/01/2023 17:15

I also was in the "be kind, no skin off my nose, just like being gay, probably" gang. But it became very obvious just who isn't allowed to have an opinion and who must be shut down and who must be kind. And it's always, always women. Why is that, I wondered. So I found out. I eventually came here, still being all nice and kind etc and got my arse royally handed to me about eight years ago. It stung badly at the time and I really had to slink away and think about why. Then it all came together.

I had a friend point out that all the women’s health websites were updated to be “inclusive” but men’s health websites where lately left untouched. It’s really irritating how silent everyone is about that isn’t it? Lol

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StephanieSuperpowers · 06/01/2023 17:15

I also was in the "be kind, no skin off my nose, just like being gay, probably" gang. But it became very obvious just who isn't allowed to have an opinion and who must be shut down and who must be kind. And it's always, always women. Why is that, I wondered. So I found out. I eventually came here, still being all nice and kind etc and got my arse royally handed to me about eight years ago. It stung badly at the time and I really had to slink away and think about why. Then it all came together.

anyolddinosaur · 06/01/2023 17:10

Never been a TRA but was vaguely in the "be kind", doesnt really matter to me group until one of my relatives transitioned. Then I thought I ought to find out more about it.

Once you really find out what is happening then it becomes impossible to support.

PissedOffAmericanWoman · 06/01/2023 17:05

MichaelFabricantWig · 06/01/2023 17:01

I wasn’t a TRA, but I was right down the “TWAW” rabbit hole, believed the rhetoric about “being born in the wrong body”, didn’t mind being called “cis” etc up until about 5/6 years ago maybe? Didn’t post about it on Twitter or anything, certainly didn’t abuse anyone, but I guess I just accepted the trans rhetoric.

what led me to change was a case overseas where a man tried to have his age legally changed as he felt younger than he was and I thought “och that’s ridiculous” but then thought well is it really any more ridiculous than changing sex? Decided it wasn’t, and that was it. Labour’s ridiculous self ID plans were the final nail in the coffin.

That completely makes sense. Like where do we draw the line? And how is it any different? The litter box incident in a university and -MAPs- trying to downplay pedophila. I think that stuff is really killing the momentum. I don’t see how it is sustainable especially with them not drawing a clear line in the sand. The endless need to include everyone. The long LGBTQIA+ acronym is a perfect example of the lack of boundaries to their own detriment.

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Imicola · 06/01/2023 17:04

I was never a TRA, but used to firmly sit on the other side of the debate. I started reading more widely after reading an article (BBC surprisingly) about lesbians being coerced into sexual relationships with intact transwomen, in combination with seeing increasing numbers of posts on mumsnet about young girls declaring themselves trans. Then it just felt like so many things were way wrong.

MichaelFabricantWig · 06/01/2023 17:01

I wasn’t a TRA, but I was right down the “TWAW” rabbit hole, believed the rhetoric about “being born in the wrong body”, didn’t mind being called “cis” etc up until about 5/6 years ago maybe? Didn’t post about it on Twitter or anything, certainly didn’t abuse anyone, but I guess I just accepted the trans rhetoric.

what led me to change was a case overseas where a man tried to have his age legally changed as he felt younger than he was and I thought “och that’s ridiculous” but then thought well is it really any more ridiculous than changing sex? Decided it wasn’t, and that was it. Labour’s ridiculous self ID plans were the final nail in the coffin.

PissedOffAmericanWoman · 06/01/2023 16:57

LadyOfTheCanyon · 06/01/2023 16:42

Following with interest. I'm in the UK and was reading a thread earlier saying that on our last census something like 0.35% of the population identifies as transgender/ non binary. ( I'm going to re check that so apologies if I'm wrong).

So not a huge amount in real terms given the amount of publicity, airspace and fawning on social media that women are subjected to.

I don't have an answer for you OP because I've always been staunchly GC but I'm always interested in the cognitive dissonance between "trans women are women" and "please don't trigger me by talking about periods" and also " TWAW but I don't recognise any of the shit bits of the female experience" ( lower pay, DV, sexual assault, sexual health and pregnancy etc) .

But you'd think if you ARE a woman that this would be part of your experience ( or hoped for experience. That you'd be all over it like a rash. But instead TW seem to largely want to identify with the 'fun' bits of performative femininity. No one seems to dress like Barbara from accounts, for example.

Oh yes. They only want the nice very exterior part of womanhood. But when we are experiencing a very physical womanly experience they suddenly want nothing to do with us because it’s suddenly undeniable that we are different in ways neither of us can change even if we wanted to.

Idk why but there was one transgirl that said she wished she could have a period and that always made me furious. Probably because my period was not something I opted into and I literally have lost jobs because my periods hurt so badly. The issue was never diagnosed and I was always gaslit by doctors that it was not that bad and I just needed to suck it up. I had been sent home vomiting by employers.

I think it was trauma related because after I got away from a very bad family situation and I was happy and safe it resolved and they became very mild. But the fact is I went through that for years and it was very painful and something I would often dread. But they made it sound like it would be fun and quirky!

Not to mention the shame I felt in elementary school. I was an early bloomer. Got my period before I got the sex or period talk at 10yo in class very publicly because my parents did not think it would happen so early. Mother got hers at 13 and just assumed it would be the same for us. So it was very scary humiliating and terrifying but the kids who knew shamed me really badly especially the boys. Girls would announce to the class that they heard me using wrappers in the bathroom and they would say they could smell my period and didn’t want to play with me. It was horrible. But you know it’s so cute and trendy bleeding in our pants and having painful cramps right? 😃

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RawrMeow · 06/01/2023 16:54

For me it happened after having a child. Was a card carrying London lib type, desperate to be cool and please, hanging out with the awesome lgbt folk.

Moved somewhere boring, had a kid, noticed the feminism boards after I was thinking through child legal issues. Saw the GC stuff and was interested in what all the fuss was about so followed for a bit.

I think I began to peak after considering the information about GIDS, transing kids and feeling a quite primal urge to protect my tiny child from this abuse.

The PIE related stuff is also pretty yuck.

I used to be THAT kind of, living their life on the Internet, outcast geek, watches anime, 'cool girl' who is 'one of the boys and dislikes women' (internal mysoginist), thinks certain opinions are edgy, 911 was faked, everyone else is an idiot and only I know what the right opinion is, kind of young person. I see me in these TRAs. Hoping they grow out of it just as I did.

I've brought my husband along on the journey, he was at first quite concerned I'd turned into a bigot. But now he gets it. So thanks, FWR.

PissedOffAmericanWoman · 06/01/2023 16:46

Branleuse · 06/01/2023 16:29

I got called a terf and told to educate myself after commenting on a trans friends post. It was for stumbling over how to describe 'male bodied' and born male, in a trans-friendly way. I got it wrong and was jumped on.

Obviously as soon as i started 'educating myself' it all became clear

Aw yes the typical “Maybe if we just aggressively stack them that will show them to get it wrong!” I was very emotionally immature to fall for them and join in. I honestly cringe at myself when I remember doing that to people. 😬 Looking back most likely they never got it wrong again but they probably just avoided the topic entirely and I probably just ensured that they became a closet gender critical. 😂😅🥹

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LadyOfTheCanyon · 06/01/2023 16:42

Following with interest. I'm in the UK and was reading a thread earlier saying that on our last census something like 0.35% of the population identifies as transgender/ non binary. ( I'm going to re check that so apologies if I'm wrong).

So not a huge amount in real terms given the amount of publicity, airspace and fawning on social media that women are subjected to.

I don't have an answer for you OP because I've always been staunchly GC but I'm always interested in the cognitive dissonance between "trans women are women" and "please don't trigger me by talking about periods" and also " TWAW but I don't recognise any of the shit bits of the female experience" ( lower pay, DV, sexual assault, sexual health and pregnancy etc) .

But you'd think if you ARE a woman that this would be part of your experience ( or hoped for experience. That you'd be all over it like a rash. But instead TW seem to largely want to identify with the 'fun' bits of performative femininity. No one seems to dress like Barbara from accounts, for example.

Xiaoxiong · 06/01/2023 16:38

For me it was pregnancy, birth and nursing as well. I had very similar experiences as you did with trans friends. I always find it telling when TRAs come on here telling us that we just need to meet some trans people and then we'll see the light - yes I did but not in the way they think!

Branleuse · 06/01/2023 16:29

I got called a terf and told to educate myself after commenting on a trans friends post. It was for stumbling over how to describe 'male bodied' and born male, in a trans-friendly way. I got it wrong and was jumped on.

Obviously as soon as i started 'educating myself' it all became clear

PissedOffAmericanWoman · 06/01/2023 16:24

From the very beginning there were subtle (or not so subtle) red flags. Like the fact that it felt more like TRA’s were telling women, not asking, what was acceptable and what wasn’t. It wasn’ta two way conversation. It was very much “it’s my way or the highway.” or “Do as I say or I will label you as a bigot.” Looking back they were very much holding me emotionally hostage.

The hypocrisy of how trans racial was not accepted but transgender was. The outright refusal to acknowledge sex. But the biggest factor was meeting transpeople in person I think. A lot of the trans women seemed very angry and seemingly suspicious of me even when I was very highly accepting of them and enthusiastically accepted them as women. There was even a gut feeling that they looked down on me or were even jealous of me. The fact that the conversation always seemed to revolve around their sexuality. The common language corrections that even when done in a seemingly polite way that gradually started to get tiring . You know the language seemingly changed every month so even the most knowledgeable person would have trouble keeping up with it.

There was also the feeling that I just couldn’t shake around trans women when we had “girl talk”. It didn’t feel natural even though I really really tried to shake that. One transgirl would get in a very bad mood when there was discussion of periods, cramping, PMS or sanitary products.

I once took a picture of my bathroom being redecorated to show off the wall paper and the transgirl literally just walked out of the room. We asked if she was okay and she said she felt upset that she could see a box of tampons. That never sat right with me.

There is also the obvious fact that you can’t just say women in situations where it would be convenient when discussing female issues. It’s always the tiring mouth full phrases such as people who menstruate or people who give birth or people who breastfeed. It gets old you know?

The biggest life event that shifted my perspective was experiencing pregnancy, giving birth and breastfeeding. Not to mention how my midwives and la leche league using (inclusive language) during an already stressful time. Realizing desire being very very sick and almost dying three times I was more worried about checking and scanning my language and word choices than myself and my baby’s health.

It was after my daughters birth and experiencing very painful and stressful breastfeeding that I really started to review my perspective. First was the fact that my trans friends suddenly became very scarce. One said it was because they hate children and I talked about it too much. The other became passive aggressive and started making mean comments and seemed amused even giddy that I was so ill and almost died. They weren’t this way until I got pregnant. My female friend made a comment that they said our trans girl friends confessed they found my pregnancy difficult to hear about and even commented that I was insensitive to bring it up and should keep it to myself.

These instances made me think about how this all affected my daughter. I often wondered how I would feel if she decided to be a “he”. And while I wouldn’t hate that I couldn’t lie to myself anymore. I would prefer that she didn’t. Not because I wouldn’t love her/him or that I couldn’t accept them or use the correct pronouns but because I would worry about my child’s health but mental and physical. About whether or not they felt that way for the right reasons and weather it would cut their life short or prevent them from living their life too it’s fullest.

Many of my trans friends seemed very self involved sadly. I cannot deny that everything seemed to be about them and their feelings. Yet I had my own traumas and health issues as well as everyone else yet their issues always seemed to be prioritized over everything else. They very rarely talked about anything other than their transness. It wasn’t just an experience for them or a lived reality but it was their entire being and personality it seemed, in a very all consuming unhealthy way.

I realized talking to them was exhausting even a chore. I think that’s when I realized even though I didn’t want to admit it that I was becoming gender critical. I didn’t want to be. I was scared of being gender critical. I was scared of being called a transphobe or bigot or being rejected or called out on social media. Even worse what if I was the only one who felt this way?

But slowly I started paying attention and noticing the little hints and subtle comments from friends and family. I would ask very carefully how they felt and slowly one by one others started confessing they felt the same but felt it was too risky to open up about it. It was a relief. They said they felt they couldn’t admit to disagreeing with it because many (mainly liberals) in the USA sees things in very black and white. (You are either with us or against us.) Rather than a very nuanced perspective that perhaps those that disagree with some things maybe don’t disagree with everything. For instance enmeshing gender with sex when they are very different experiences.

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