First they came for KJK, now Helen Joyce

I don’t understand this idea that if you campaign with someone on an important issue, you must agree with them on absolutely everything else. I think we need to develop tolerance for different views again. I don’t see any need to demonize conservatives or anyone else.

I also see a lot of intolerance towards religious women especially (some of my family are in a minority religious community). I can happily coexist with them despite having different views. Time for us to relearn tolerance imo.

I used to think they expected someone to come and cheerlead them. But then notice the only posts that did that cheerleading these days tend towards being deleted as a PBP.

And one regular poster (serial name changer).

LOL

I stopped following Jeni Harvey a while back, when I realised every single tweet of hers I clocked was slagging off another woman campaigner for Feministing the Wrong Way, rather than actually campaigning on behalf of women.

I had a fairly crisp exchange with Helen Lewis on the same subject. She advanced the theory that unsubscribing because you don't want to read women who knock lumps out of other women is itself a purity spiral, which bothered me and I'm still reflecting on.

I don't think that's what I'm doing. I'm just sick to the tits of all the wasted energy when there's still so much to be done.

😂🤐

Oh I think that some posters work on the theory that if they can say something like that that there is a chance that 1 person will go off and spread it as gospel.

I used to think they expected someone to come and cheerlead them. But then notice the only posts that did that cheerleading these days tend towards being deleted as a PBP.

I think a proportion of this behaviour is because various women have come in and shown their articulacy, intelligence, tenacity and media skills and moved the debate on in so many ways. There is jealousy yes but I think they feel shown up as well. Look at these non-feminists coming in and doing our job better than us and everyone knowing it. We’d better say they’re not doing it the right way.

Oh no, Helen Joyce is a Nazi? That sounds quite definitive, how distressing. Nazis are the bad guys! No need to validate this info, I've seen the error of my ways and will be off to the nearest trans rights rally to atone for my sins. Thanks so much for enlightening me @MargaritaPie !

That is indeed what happened.

To my distress, she didn't appear to have used pinking shears which does constitute a crime against haberdashery, but it was her fabric to cut up.

What a load of shit. Do you really think you win anyone over with obvious lies?

They don't think at all. They're like one of those Pez dispensers. Someone presses their head and stuff comes out. 🙄

What a load of shit. Do you really think you win anyone over with obvious lies?

From what I remember she is standing next to a butch lesbian who has cut off the "progressive" part of the flag and has her hand in the air dropping the bit that's been cut off.
Of course, the lying TRAs say it looks like a Nazi salute because they don't know how to not lie and have no better arguments.

I am posting this on any threads where women might need to hear the voice of hope.

make sure the sound is turned on.

twitter.com/quirkathon/status/1609619946165927936?s=46&t=_v6TGwDOjWOQXCLosQOHmw

Sorry if I am late to the party in posting this. And The Victoria G - thank you!!

Helen Joyce, that name sounds familiar.

There's a photo floating around Twitter with 2 women stomping on an LGBT pride flag and one appears to be doing a Nazi salute. Is Helen in that one?

I think they identify as Greens - probably lots of easy, virtue signalling behaviour but no real deep thought or nuance.

Personally, I’ve been put right off joining any sort of political organisation in recent years. I can’t be arsed with all the tribal thinking - I want to be able to debate, examine an issue from all angles and not feel like I have to subscribe to certain beliefs to fit.

Good for you beetle. I joined the greens deliberately to piss some of the blue haired lot off. why aren't they using non chemical dye like we used to??

There's no doubt that people feel very tribal about their politics and want to conduct their version of feminism within it.

What I don't get is why they don't just get on with it, then. Instead of making it all about someone doing it differently. What's the bloody point? It achieves nothing.

What is the gain?

Helen Joyce is amazing.

When did "pro-nuclear family" become a slur?

I don't feel abused by still being a Labour member. I'm Fucking annoyed at them and it feels like a waste if the money at v the moment. But b out does mean I'm in the list v off b people that v they phone when they are looking for votes or csndidates so i get to spend an hour on the phone telling them exactly what I think. It's very cathartic.

Ignore random letters tablet if ducked

I find Helen Lewis v interesting; current series of the new gurus on r4 is was both bonkers, fascinating and concerning at the same time.

I adore HJ, I love listening to her and reading her articles. Also Bindel.

My only ever gripe with HJ was recently when she tweeted that labour women were allowing themselves to be abused by remaining in such a terrible party on this issue. I disagree and see them as stalwarts, the resistance. Labour really don't care if labour are loosing women. The greens don't either and celebrate it.

I think there's a place for women who draw their boundaries firmly within "the left" as well as those who set their boundaries elsewhere for clearly defined reasons. I think debate skills could be sharpened for some of the former (not Bindel!)

Anyone who tries to align HJ with the far right wing is just embarrassing and discrediting themselves.

HJ is magnificent, intelligent and above all full of humour and reasonable. You'd struggle to find a better epitome of a likeable, intelligent, confident, competent, humane woman.

That tweeter, whose tweets I've read before and thought about for a bit, will now be automatically dismissed into the bin of 'don't bother'.

I am not sure what the mumsnet feminist collective think of Helen Lewis, but I borrowed an audio version of her book "Difficult Women" from the library recently.

I thought it was good and addresses the complexity of the women who fought important feminist rights issues. IMO it is worth a read.

But I agree with the general consensus that purity spirals are bad.

I've met HJ virtually and she is so sane and clever. Brilliant woman.
I donate to a woman's place (as well as LGBA and Sex Matters) monthly, should I be rerouting that money?

I know it's like ffs we are all women and we are all getting fucked over.

Can we just deal with and sort that then go our separate ways when it's done

Why does that have to be so hard???

I have read the thread. Like the responses. But particuarly like this one. I concur 😁