First non-binary priest in C of E

Very sprightly, too, when they slid down the bannister 😉

Ah the Mail said Genesis 1 3. Can't expect them to be accurate I suppose. There looks like there's additional quotes in the original Liverpool version, I'll have a read.

Good that 'equalness' is the implication but it doesn't seem to have filtered through to the church sadly, although probably better than it was?

@BarkAscending you could well be right, they did come out seven years ago though and and said they told their wife and children before that I think, so seven years of marriage have actually passed before the public statement in the paper.

Perhaps they made their 'expectations' clear at that point though. I'm definitely not going to victim blame someone for staying if it wasn't the wife's honest choice because you could be right, we have no way to tell if they are another Jan Morris. Or perhaps they aren't coercive and the wife is fine with it. Could be either.

@WerewolvesAtMidnight

The original article in the Liverpool Echo states:

It was while writing an essay on how God created the earth that Bingo had an epiphany. They said the language which the bible originally used in Genesis 1:27 spoke about “from maleness to femaleness” as opposed to men and women.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/church-england-priest-how-god-25771430?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

I’ve seen various translations where they use “man and woman” instead of “male and female”, but never “maleness and femaleness”.

As I said, I always thought that the significance was that it gives women the first mention in the Bible in a way that implies an equal standing with men.

Its not up to the vicar to decide what terms someone else stays in a relationship on. Its not for anyone to do that. To publicly state their own expectations as to why the wife should remain in the marriage, is coercive. It's deliberate. It makes it more difficult for her to pull away, as she is presented as the bad one. What this individual has done is a present in plain sight the emotional coercion and pressure they are putting the wife under. It remains me of the tactics Jan Morris's daughter reported recently Jan used against her. To put her down publicly but to do it in a way that others won't quite see.

I see it.

He had no disapproval for even the 'outcasts' of his time (prostitutes and lepers?)!

He wouldn’t despise a prostitute but he didn’t think a prostitute should carry on being one after he had helped her. Jesus did not appear to think ‘sex work is work’.

@WarningToTheCurious I couldn't find any verses relating to maleness and femaleness for Genesis 1 27. Most translations are:

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

I think 'man' in the fourth word relates to mankind, male and female relate to the sexes.

However reading the article they say they got the epiphany reading Genesis 1 3 so I googled and its the really long one about creation and had the famous 'let there be light'.

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%201-3&version=NIV

But I'd like to believe you marry the person someone becomes as much as you marry the person that they are

This sentence is absolutely chilling in its quiet coercive control. The poor wife.

Reported

It could be seen as that, if he is 'expecting' or 'coercing' the wife to accept the changes that have happened since first getting married. Or perhaps he's saying what he believes 'should' happen at a theoretical level but sometimes it just doesn't.

I've been with my partner over twenty years we have definitely changed in that time. I accept him for who is now. If he wanted to wear make up and feminine clothes I'd probably just shrug and help him out with sizing and colours.

If I came out as a trans man and medically transitioned to have muscles and a beard he probably wouldn't accept it to be honest. We might stay together but not have a sexual relationship. Who knows.

I think we 'should' probably be accepting in an ideal world but there shouldn't be an expectation.

Isn’t part of the significance of Genesis 1:27 being that it talks of creating “man” and “him” in the masculine singular and then “male and female” and “them” in the plural? And that it implies male and female are equal?

Nothing that I recall about maleness and femaleness though.

Yeah and I'm sure TinselAngel would have a few comments to make on this line alone. It's not fair on his wife as he's not the man she thought she was marrying.

Fair play! Sounds like an cut Only Fools and Horses scene, and they went with the weeping statue instead!

Not quoting as it's getting large, but referring to the gendered clothing and toys, it's affecting girls yes and also boys as you say, it could be starting an early feed into toxic masculinity which isn't good for anyone.

This isn't new. Years ago I was just minding my own business, scavenging some lead off the roof of a church on Oxford Road in Manchester, usual day for me at the time. Anyway, I saw a Vicar who would definitely today be described as "non-binary" - flamboyant chap in ballet-wear. He wasn't strange, he just wanted to live his life that way.

But I'd like to believe you marry the person someone becomes as much as you marry the person that they are

This is a really horrible coercive sentence. I feel really sorry for the wife.

@Boiledbeetle
The predator/prey thing is quite chilling isn't it?

P.S. I'm envious of your bolding skills

I believe this campaign had its first inception here on Mumsnet - www.letclothesbeclothes.co.uk/

They do Twitter posts sometimes when they go into shops and compare the clothes on sale at that point - it's really fascinating (and somewhat depressing) - I'll try and find a link.

I came across the issue recently when buying pants for my wee one. A packet of pants for toddler girls had slogans like 'be kind' and 'be nice ' on the front of them. Putting aside the sheer creepiness of putting such slogans on children's knickers, I would take a punt that such slogans are not on the front of boy's pants.

Oh hang on I think I misinterpreted what you meant. I think you were referring to people wanting to look androgynous? I think that still exists too.

And that’s what I’m sick of. The fact if you put a gender ideology spin on something it’s deemed newsworthy when there’s nothing newsworthy here at all. And the fact there are shallow people making hay while the sun shines. Just like a Kardashian.

Oops the quote disappeared. I was of course referring to this!

Oooh look at us all getting along.

2023 is starting off well

☕and a slice of 🍰for all

but definitely no 🍤

More tea Vicar?

I think it boils down to 'feelings' again. Do they 'feel' non binary or to they 'feel' like a man or woman that is non-conforming. I think there's room for everyone there, each to their own as it were.

😂😂😂You are not wrong there!

@NotBadConsidering perhaps they did and the journalist unfortunately didn't consider Joan newsworthy, perhaps they did and the journalist didn't include those bits in their word count because they are after 'juice' not good deeds. No way to tell, but it's unlikely the journalist would go after what they unfortunately consider 'boring' stuff unless they could see an angle to use.