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Model response to a dilemma for women in the left-right storm (really?)

483 replies

IwantToRetire · 01/01/2023 19:10

So not satisfied with appropriating the work, ideas and campaigning of one woman and many active supporters, some complete set of nobody film makers have taken it upon themselves to school us silly air heads on how to behave and who to talk to.

Leaving aside the smug condescension of believing the have the right to tell us how to behave, this is a perfect example of where complete nobodies who exploit other people to further their own media career, then assume they are as politically relevant and analytically acute as actual activists.

kaygreen.blog/2022/12/31/model-response-to-a-dilemma-for-women-in-the-left-right-storm/

This is the problem with the media at the moment, presenters and film makers who are just the vehicle to get voices and ideas heard, then think they are entitled to become the spokes person.

Apart from anything else, did these nupties even think maybe we should ask those who the film was actually about. I know they would, having been hand selected as the appropriately politically aligned voices, also refused, but even within the unethical world of these self promoters, do they really think they take precedence.

But it does gives us a clear idea of their moral compass and how they felt able to bandwagon of others work and go to extreme lengths to make sure they are never referred to or acknowledged.

OP posts:
NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 04/01/2023 23:21

And this is Oprah's website , with a piece dated 09/28/2007, which talks about children being born in the wrong body.

One of the children interviewed for it is a female teen who had an elective double mastectomy before 18.

Quote

At age 16, Jake had surgery to remove his breasts. Before that, he would bind them every day. "It's so much easier now to pick out what I want to wear because I don't have to worry about if my chest is showing or not," he says.

Oprah on gender identity

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 04/01/2023 23:15

In an earlier post you mentioned lacking a cultural figure in the States. I wish Oprah would stand up and say something. I am not even aware is she has said anything either way tbh.

Don't hold your breath. Oprah has uncritically interviewed E. Page about how cosmetic surgery remedies personal distress.

I'm disappointed in Oprah. Oprah should be fully cognisant of how abusive Hollywood can be, especially after #Me Too campaign. Page is a former child star experiencing distress around having breasts, who describes having panic attacks at the thought of wearing standard hollywood women's evening wear (i.e. revealing) to film premieres. I think there's another explanation at hand than having a blue soul that accidentally got put in a female body.

For example, whether Page admits it or not, I think Page's life as a child actor and then a teenage actor meant gaining firsthand knowledge of how lecherous men in powerful positions behave, including how they treat actors and actresses whose careers depend on their favour. I wouldn't want to wear skimpy evening wear around exploitative, abusive men either...

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56952345

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 23:09

GrinitchSpinach · 04/01/2023 22:39

Speaking of Dr. Phil and Kara Dansky, she filmed an episode of his show back in August 2022 and got the go-ahead from his producers to mention it online:

twitter.com/WDI_USA/status/1557835765945577474

It's still yet to air.

I'm only occasionally on Twitter, so totally missed that.

That is really exciting! Not the MSM gravitas I can wish for (as Dansky has the ability to speak on news stations), but definitely the cultural/general public audience.

GrinitchSpinach · 04/01/2023 22:39

Speaking of Dr. Phil and Kara Dansky, she filmed an episode of his show back in August 2022 and got the go-ahead from his producers to mention it online:

twitter.com/WDI_USA/status/1557835765945577474

It's still yet to air.

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 22:27

I am sure that Kellie Jay would consider any platform.

I think she would have the nerves to remain calm even if she was on a platform that was high pressure. For instance like that Dr Phil episode with Matt Walsh. Now I don’t agree with Matt Walsh on some, maybe many, topics but I can say that he can hold his discussion without losing his nerve or his temper.

The entire thing is, just like Kara Dansky said on Twitter the other day - will it ever happen?

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 22:04

Another thought experiment I've had is what if CNN platformed KJK and she was able to get in her regular message PLUS a plug for 'US is behind on its abortion rights'? That kind of media platform would likely quell some of the 'agree w/ you but you scare me when men w/ guns show up at your protests'. It would also show Americans that UK women have GC AND abortion rights/ women's rights views (there's an assumption from many Americans that you are all more progressive than we are). Plus, your accents make us think you're smarter than we are. It is known.

She's really good on air and if asked sensible questions, she'd shine. I do believe the platform matters if you want to tip the scales. It's not fair, but I think it's reality.

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 21:54

what do you think, other than a celeb voice, will swing it? Or just as you say, when the damaged children and the suing gets too much?

Warrior. I also follow PITTstack and hear rumblings of lawsuits on there. It makes me sick that we need to wait for more kids to get damaged. Maybe it will be a few parents w/ connections?

Another thing I've noticed in left-leaning political FB groups is the lessening of pro-trans kids posts and also the limited 'likes' to such posts in contrast to lots of likes on other posts like abortion rights or 'stupid things Trump said'. I'm sensing a growing silent majority.

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 21:32

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 21:18

In a nutshell, I find people who demand political purity to be rather tribal.

@Helleofabore I don't care what you think. You won't suffer under the political consequences of a US Republican majority. I have DDs and sisters and friends who may need abortions and won't be able to get one. My kids have never known a school year (including nursery) w/out an active shooter drill and I am pretty sure I've been to more funerals of kids dead by gunfire than you ever have. American feminist politics are more than a narrow UK GC lens.

And I hear you but, I am sorry, I don’t agree with painting Riley Gaines as something she is not because of who she voted for.

You can tell me off all you like, I am still not going to portray someone as 100% supporting every single manifesto point
of a candidate unless they expressly say so.

I am sure though that you are doing everything you can to make the changes you want for your local area, your state and your country.

And I can applaud you on that because that is democracy.

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 21:28

Sorry to derail w/ US stuff...I stick w/ MN because 1. I love it and you witches are so damn smart 2. I have shamelessly used your arguments to do what I can in my country.

Sharing a language makes this easy. Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie uses her English and her Nigerian to help women and I often wonder what kind of MN FWR versions there are in other languages. Korean feminists sometimes post on Ovarit and I've learned a lot from them as well.

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 21:22

I like the leaflets and sticker ideas. I have some US feminist friends on Ovarit and they are sticker QUEENS!!!

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 21:20

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 21:15

Good luck

My aim is to write more letters to my MP who follows the strict party line.

But to also hand out more leaflets! That was enlightening to see just how much of the population already know about the issues. Some great debates were had even in the drizzle!

@Helleofabore good luck to you too.

I got heated w/ you in my last post. I'm sorry, but please consider we have different situations.

Damn...and I said I wouldn't get mad with feminists on MN...ugh. so much for new year's resolutions.

TheWitchesAreBackInTown · 04/01/2023 21:19

Dems who disagree are just anonymous internet warriors and can't break through to the OFFICIAL DEM PARTY. BTW, those comments are very typical to ones I've read on the NYTimes and WaPo...regular Dems, liberals and a lot of progressives, when asked the right questions, don't believe TWAW and don't believe they belong in women's spaces or sports.

Yes, I get it about regular folks. When push comes to shove, not many actually believe in the ideology but their voices are small or afraid because of the hostile atmosphere created by the very vocal minority. It requires a sea change in culture.

Kara Dansky is amazing and shouldn't be criticised for utilising whatever media outlets are available. The dismissive attitude and arrogance of the film makers towards her was completely uncalled for.

In an earlier post you mentioned lacking a cultural figure in the States. I wish Oprah would stand up and say something. I am not even aware is she has said anything either way tbh.

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 21:18

In a nutshell, I find people who demand political purity to be rather tribal.

@Helleofabore I don't care what you think. You won't suffer under the political consequences of a US Republican majority. I have DDs and sisters and friends who may need abortions and won't be able to get one. My kids have never known a school year (including nursery) w/out an active shooter drill and I am pretty sure I've been to more funerals of kids dead by gunfire than you ever have. American feminist politics are more than a narrow UK GC lens.

GrinitchSpinach · 04/01/2023 21:15

Best of luck, Delph! They really are supposed to meet with their constituents, even if it's a staffer instead of the rep him/herself.

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 21:15

Good luck

My aim is to write more letters to my MP who follows the strict party line.

But to also hand out more leaflets! That was enlightening to see just how much of the population already know about the issues. Some great debates were had even in the drizzle!

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 21:11

One other thing I hope to try this year: to get a face to face w/ a local political representative. While I've written to senators, I often get canned responses that clearly are written by young aids who use the party line. I imagine some of them are TRA activists refuse to filer to the senators what is being said.

A face to face w/ a rep to hear my voice, as a constituent mom who's seen the damage of gender identity in schools and sports. This is my personal goal this year.

I'll keep you posted.

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 21:06

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 20:50

So we are back to no person who supports Trump over Biden is a true feminist?

I get it, he is a horrible vile human being.

But do you have anything else other than her vote?

Because I have voted labour without fully supporting (even being very much against) some of there policies. I have voted Lib Dems and not been on board with some of their policies.

I guess I don’t treat people solely on their voting history. And it is exactly like the ‘guilt by association’ in this instance. If you choose to define feminism as fully excluding any one who might be conservative on some issues while not being conservative on women’s rights, well I guess we will always disagree.

The thing is delphinium for the sake of the ‘argument’ Riley wasn’t even important as I said. Taking her from the list shows that there is even less feminist representation on Tucker Carlson discussing the conflicts where one group’s demands are negatively impacting on those needed for females, for women and children.

In a nutshell, I find people who demand political purity to be rather tribal.

I also don’t assume that someone supports all a candidates manifesto just because they vote for them. Because that seems to me to be very tribal indeed.

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 20:58

But the leaders are not going to change their minds because they are following the people.

Maybe...I tend to ignore a lot of the 'Follow the gender woo money' because some of it appears to get a bit too conspiracy-like, but I can't ignore that there are Democrats, like Republicans, who have deep-pocketed donors. It's why Bernie Sander's ant-capitalist message resonated with so many people. Eventually, you have to follow the people, but right now, like the above commentators on the YouTube video, Dems who disagree are just anonymous internet warriors and can't break through to the OFFICIAL DEM PARTY. BTW, those comments are very typical to ones I've read on the NYTimes and WaPo...regular Dems, liberals and a lot of progressives, when asked the right questions, don't believe TWAW and don't believe they belong in women's spaces or sports.

That's why I push grassroots letter writing to your senators, reps, etc.

I truly hope Kara Dansky's tireless work will be rewarded. She's not flashy nor controversial but she's damn tenacious. NYTimes should really, really platform her. I tell them that all the time ;)

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 20:50

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 20:36

I agree with Riley Gaines about the sports issue, but she's not a feminist. She's an athlete who loves Trump and is sad he's been smeared (eyeroll).

So we are back to no person who supports Trump over Biden is a true feminist?

I get it, he is a horrible vile human being.

But do you have anything else other than her vote?

Because I have voted labour without fully supporting (even being very much against) some of there policies. I have voted Lib Dems and not been on board with some of their policies.

I guess I don’t treat people solely on their voting history. And it is exactly like the ‘guilt by association’ in this instance. If you choose to define feminism as fully excluding any one who might be conservative on some issues while not being conservative on women’s rights, well I guess we will always disagree.

The thing is delphinium for the sake of the ‘argument’ Riley wasn’t even important as I said. Taking her from the list shows that there is even less feminist representation on Tucker Carlson discussing the conflicts where one group’s demands are negatively impacting on those needed for females, for women and children.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 04/01/2023 20:44

GrinitchSpinach · 04/01/2023 20:39

With all this discussion about what appearing on Tucker's show actually accomplishes, I went back and watched one of Kara Dansky's appearances, which now has 1.7 million views on YouTube.

Some of the top-voted YT comments:

I like this lady. She’s a paid up Democrat but not afraid to say that a woman is a woman and a man is a man. Very brave lady, swimming against the tide.

I'm glad someone is finally calling gender identity what it truly is, nonsense and discrimination.

Another lifelong registered Democrat here who completely agrees with every word this woman said. Hopefully the lawsuit she wrote a brief for goes all the way to the Supreme Court.

Refreshing to hear.. people need to stop making their identity based around party lines.
You can be a Democrat and no be anti police and you can be a republican and be pro choice.. it's wierd how people feel the need to go all in on one side or the other..

I completely agree with her plea. We have to stop using that language just to be nice. There are times when we have to speak the straight truth no matter how unpopular it is.

She's the first progressive woman I've seen take a stand against all this bs. Good for her. Biology is real science is real

I can't believe it. It's been SO LONG since I agreed with a feminist, let alone a democrat. So refreshing to hear someone so smart representing the democrat side of the spectrum. It gives me hope bc it means there are still things we can work on TOGETHER.

Good to know that feminism isn’t 100% man hating like most media portrays. There are actually still some feminists that want the advancement of women without the need to crap on men. Thank you and I honestly hope something great happens to you today.

I'm sure I will be accused of cherry-picking these responses, but they are genuinely what comes to the top when I sort by "top comments" on this YouTube segment. Even if they were a minority, I think that these Fox viewers' apparently sincere responses to Kara's outreach are worth the effort she put into it.

this is brilliant

great to see such a fantastic response to Kara

toomanytrees · 04/01/2023 20:41

It is important to keep this women's rights issue in the public eye. More opportunities means more discussions of the various impacts, from sports, to shelters to health care to privacy and dignity, to children and schools. It also lets people know they are not alone. That is why the opposition is so intent to shut it down. They know the left leaning media will not touch it and they fear the ideas will leak out from Fox News. If they didn't think Fox News was effective, they wouldn't argue so vehemently against it.

GrinitchSpinach · 04/01/2023 20:39

With all this discussion about what appearing on Tucker's show actually accomplishes, I went back and watched one of Kara Dansky's appearances, which now has 1.7 million views on YouTube.

Some of the top-voted YT comments:

I like this lady. She’s a paid up Democrat but not afraid to say that a woman is a woman and a man is a man. Very brave lady, swimming against the tide.

I'm glad someone is finally calling gender identity what it truly is, nonsense and discrimination.

Another lifelong registered Democrat here who completely agrees with every word this woman said. Hopefully the lawsuit she wrote a brief for goes all the way to the Supreme Court.

Refreshing to hear.. people need to stop making their identity based around party lines.
You can be a Democrat and no be anti police and you can be a republican and be pro choice.. it's wierd how people feel the need to go all in on one side or the other..

I completely agree with her plea. We have to stop using that language just to be nice. There are times when we have to speak the straight truth no matter how unpopular it is.

She's the first progressive woman I've seen take a stand against all this bs. Good for her. Biology is real science is real

I can't believe it. It's been SO LONG since I agreed with a feminist, let alone a democrat. So refreshing to hear someone so smart representing the democrat side of the spectrum. It gives me hope bc it means there are still things we can work on TOGETHER.

Good to know that feminism isn’t 100% man hating like most media portrays. There are actually still some feminists that want the advancement of women without the need to crap on men. Thank you and I honestly hope something great happens to you today.

I'm sure I will be accused of cherry-picking these responses, but they are genuinely what comes to the top when I sort by "top comments" on this YouTube segment. Even if they were a minority, I think that these Fox viewers' apparently sincere responses to Kara's outreach are worth the effort she put into it.

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 20:39

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 04/01/2023 20:04

did not know that you didn’t know that Tucker Carlson doesn’t debate GC activists, he is always in 100% agreement with them…so GC views are not a counterpoint at all on his shows.

Tucker Carlson, he's all about boys being able to cry and wear princess dresses, couples sharing housework and child care responsibility 50/50, and fighting the barriers lead to such high attrition rates for women in STEM careers

oh wait a minute, he isn't

BECAUSE HE ISN'T GENDER CRITICAL

Not sure saying it louder helped Bernard.

But this seems very much like deja vu. This discussion is so cyclical and it is certainly spiraling in. Looks and quacks like a purity spiral, but one designed for us by feminists with motives that are becoming clearer and clearer.

LilyMumsnet · 04/01/2023 20:37

Hi all

This thread is quickly descending - please can we have a bit of peace and love?

Delphinium20 · 04/01/2023 20:36

Helleofabore · 04/01/2023 18:25

I did a quick search. These were the “feminists” I could find.

Meghan Murphy 4/12/19

Govenor Kristi Noem 23/3/21 on sports bill

Kara Dansky 8/12/21 and again 24/1/22 and 19/4/22 (this last one was women in prison)

Kellie Jay Keen 23/5/22

Christina Ellingston 16/7/22 (free speech )

Riley Gaines (sports) 27/7/22

Jeanna Hoch 16/11/22 (protests)

9 spots over the past 2 years….

Very happy if people can add to the list. Because I would hope there is many more than nine occasions that Tucker has had feminists on to speak about pro women issues.

I note that some of these are short segments.

Can anyone add to this list? Because I have seen several times that feminists have effectively ‘ticked off this audience and should move to another to spread the awareness ’. So I must be missing something.

I agree with Riley Gaines about the sports issue, but she's not a feminist. She's an athlete who loves Trump and is sad he's been smeared (eyeroll).

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