I doubt the majority of those I quoted took the time to reread and be considerate of the colleagues preferences if the rest of their messages were anything to go by.

I think the problem lies in the fact that the words "he" and "she" have literally related to male and female for everyone's entire life, and now we are told actually they relate to an invisible feeling that is impossible to define but don't get it wrong! So decimalisation would be a good analogy if every price was calculated using a different formula that may change, which people refuse to tell you, in the same way that they refuse to clarify what "woman" now means.

We will.

The beliefs of your DDs friends with "Special Identities" does not trump my Christian beliefs; do not defraud and do not bear false witness being part of that. And like you say, understanding goes both way. I'm not going to prevent them from address themselves how they like, but they can't force me to change my beliefs either.

@Flounder2022 just as many or more people used he/him/his to refer to this colleague. Some people might find it ok to use they/them/their when writing messages online. It's a lot easier when you can pause and read back, and edit if you want to before posting. Not at all the same as the normal flow of conversation.

This chap can ask for special pronoun usage, other people should be free to ignore that and use the standard sex based ones without fear of being sanctioned in the workplace.

I think using sex based pronouns is probably at least as ingrained as some of those weights and measures.

I can also see a lot of well-meaning people following what they see as the most inclusive path and just calling everybody 'they' - a kind of linguistic equivalent of serving up vegan-only food at every communal meal, so that nobody will be given anything that they find objectionable.

The problem with that, though, is that - just like there are plenty of omnivores, vegetarians and pescatarians who don't like to think that their own preferences are being ignored in order to satisfy the most exacting people with different preferences - the vast, vast majority of people do not want to be referred to as 'they'.

Using 'they' for everybody is far from inclusive - it is actually divisive, when almost everybody wants to be referred to as 'he' or 'she' in the standard way, as according to his/her sex.

The right to use womens toilets as that always comes up for a start. But in all honesty there’s too many to get into - earlier posts that have tried to “educate” me have been fairly vocal about it all if you want to read back through the thread. I think you know exactly the things I’m referring to because it’s the same things everyone trots out on Mumsnet again and again in these debates.

Well, you've misunderstood. No-one is saying that whether you are trans or not has any bearing on what toilets you can use. It's also unclear which specific law you are referring to.
So again, what "trans rights" are people wrongly saying conflict with women's rights?

Do you even know what you mean when you say "trans"? Would I know how to find out if I am trans? Do you mean "someone who strongly wishes to have the opposite-sex body"?

Just use their name every single time.

call out their abuse every timeTBH

I'd go out of my way to use their name to avoid pronouns.

I'm surprised they're allowed to wear badges as part of their uniform

Because I can’t see them making much of a go at it, they sound both boring and aggressive, as well as the usual helping of self obsession.

All used in this thread despite everyone supposedly being sure the colleague referenced in the OP is a male.

Seems that I have mistaken decimalisation with metrication... but it's a better comparison I think!

The person sounds utterly insufferable. I have my opinions on the whole gender societal issue right now, won't be a popular one, in that I think it's a bandwagon people jump on when they can't get the attention they need. I think the lot of it is complete and utter bollocks and we are in the age of snowflakes, and that actually, it is becoming fucking harmful. There, I said it. But aside from his gender bollocks, the other attributes you mention make him a walking cliche in my eyes and I've no time for people who just follow all the latest fads like this. I could go on, my opinions are very strong, but for the sake of potentially not needlessly offending anyone further, I'll stop - after all, opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one.

The point I'm trying to make, is that I'm very against some of this stuff. But regardless, we are talking about, legally (whether you agree or not) potential discrimination here, in the workplace. Be very careful, OP. I know you don't care if you lose your job, but this shit sticks and can follow you.

I don't agree with any of it, but personally, I've no desire to be discriminatory in the workplace. I may technically have discriminatory views, that I can air in certain places, which perhaps makes me a hypocrite, but being guilty of it in the workplace is not good, for you.

Hmm, except road signs are all still in miles, we measure height in ft and inches still, speed is mph, drinks are in pints, cook books have recipes in imperial measures as well as decimal... and that's decades after the process of metrication was initiated. I think using sex based pronouns is probably at least as ingrained as some of those weights and measures.

My dd has a lot of friends who all use “they / them” and she never says he / she in error, she uses it so frequently and easily it’s just normal to her.

When you and she say "they/them", do you think that signifies anything? Do you think that the friends actually are not boys or girls? If you don't, why is saying "they" "correct" and "he/she" "in error"?

It may not come naturally at first but the singular "they" has been part of the English language for a very long time (Shakespeare was known to use it, for example).

I'm not very up on my Shakespeare, but did he use it to refer to a known individual?

We all commonly use 'they' when we don't know the person we're talking about - e.g. "if a customer wants to return an item, they will need to bring in their receipt" - but that's completely different from saying "Simon is meeting me at the bus stop, but they've just messaged me to say that they're running late".

We will have to agree to disagree as I don’t actually think it requires much of anyone really. Occasionally I do call my dds trans friends he / she in error but I quickly correct myself and they know I am trying my best and we all understand it’s not done with bad intent. Everyone has to try and be understanding of each other - it works both ways. They’re not shouting at me for calling them “he” by mistake and I’m trying to do my best and they know that.

When decimalisation came in (before my time!) it took everyone ages to get the hang of it but now it’s all just second nature to us all now. I think “they / them” will become the same thing. My dd has a lot of friends who all use “they / them” and she never says he / she in error, she uses it so frequently and easily it’s just normal to her.

No, I am being sensible. I refuse to lie to myself to pander to somebody elses fragile self esteem.

The irony of the trans validation ideology is that it requires so little effort from the subject, and so very much from everyone else.

*thread

OP, I wonder why you even posted this threat since you have gone on to do nothing but tell us how "not bothered" and "not arsed" you are. What are you actually looking for from us? As somebody above said well, they sound insufferable but so do you.

The right to use womens toilets as that always comes up for a start. But in all honesty there’s too many to get into - earlier posts that have tried to “educate” me have been fairly vocal about it all if you want to read back through the thread. I think you know exactly the things I’m referring to because it’s the same things everyone trots out on Mumsnet again and again in these debates.

I accept they/ them USED to be only used for more than one, ie plural. You are being deliberately difficult if you can’t see that in terms of pronouns it is no longer used in that sense.

I have empathy for the fact the op finds it difficult to adjust to using they / them.

It doesn’t mean someone shouldn’t attempt to use them though.

There’s a lot of irony in the idea thrown about that trans rights are somehow akin to removing women’s rights

Are you able to specify which trans rights you are talking about, @Afterfire ?

Oh dear you're setting off all the klaxon filters tonight.

And yet you cannot have empathy for a woman who refuses to believe her eyes are lying and she is seeing double. They is used for plural, or unknown sex. Neither of which applies here.

"I'm not going to refer to you as plural because that's ridiculous."

Just proves my point really. 👍

More tea vicar☕nice slice of cake 🍰

Clitoral Violence