Can I be forced to use pronouns?

Honestly I think I am more concerned about real human rights abuses such as in Iran, than getting someone’s pronouns right. One is harm, another is just someone’s preference so I know where my energy lies.

The female musician Halsey has requested she/her and they/them, and demands that publications interviewing her alternate between using she/her and they/them in the copy.

She/They's been watching too much Ted & Ralph from The Fast Show - and that fruit & veg game that Ted plays with his mates down the pub!

Narcissists forcing compelled speech. They become the oppressors, in one fell swoop.

Given that mouthful probably...oh fuck

Oh dear. Its going to be like trying to create a 7 strand french plait.

Hmm which pronoun do I use next? Her, they, zie, fae, per, it or cuntself?

Difficult choice.

Image finally posted!

Further to the discussion about Halsey's requirements, this is travelling around social media.

Further to our discussion of Halsey, this is being shared on social media.

Update to our discussion of Halsey and others like Halsey.

Fair point.

So that means if before I've even got my coat off and my name badge on, the person getting in my face telling me how im allowed to think and insisting on me using a specific pronoun to talk about them when that person isn't there and calling me names if I dont then technically, they started it.

So why are they surprised if anyone has something to say or ask on the matter? Why try to shut us down with even more objectionable insults?

And you are right no one has forced the posters that wished you happy New year elsewhere to be nice. It turns out that underneath some of us actually are nice. And we are rather attached to you Pie x

Just remember noone is being forced to be nice to you.

Interesting you should make that point, MargaritaPie.

It suggests to me you have absolutely no idea how much women and girls (female people) are effectively forced to be nice to male people, whether through female socialisation to always “be kind”, or out of fear of the consequences if we’re not.

We know very, very well that - conversely - male people feel under no obligation to be nice to us; our own experiences of sexual harassment, assault and discrimination, and of male VAWG tell us that, as well as the enormous amount of evidence of just how not nice male people as a class can be to female people as a class, throughout history, the world over.

Maybe the world would be a much better place if male people were strongly encouraged to be nice to female people as a default.

What a radical, progressive change that would be.

@MargaritaPie The person described by the OP is male bodied, demanding personal information and support from a colleague who is a woman. He then insulted her viciously for not obeying him. He sounds like a narcissistic jerk - and completely unprofessional. You’re angry that the OP didn’t bow down and submit to all his wishes?

Maybe not @MargaritaPie but being civil is necessary in the workplace, and this young person certainly wasn't. I think the shots have been first fired from his side rather than OPs.

Noone is forcing you to use pronouns, but if you're going to be obnoxious to or about trans/non-binary people then do be prepared for people being obnoxious to you in return.

Just remember noone is being forced to be nice to you.

Pronouns are one of the woke brigades finest weapons they subject us to.

@MichaelFabricantWig you only quoted part of my post, for balance you should have included:
However, the alternative is also true that using derogatory terms such as boomer (ageist) Karen (misogynistic) , Gammon (no idea) towards you is disrespectful and potentially discriminatory.

I also point out in my posts that both GC and GI views are protected characteristics with neither taking precedence, and that there will be more case law in this area.

Just wanted to thank @Catiette for an excellent post, amongst many other excellent posts on this thread.

*An employer has a right to set the code of conduct on the behaviour it expects from its employees and how they speak to each other and customers etc.

I am not saying using preferred pro-nouns at work is neutral what I am saying is legally it is not unreasonable for an employer to expect employees to respect peoples pro-nouns.*

welllll I think this has yet to be fully tested in the tribunals yet. An employer can’t get round equality law by having a policy which is in itself discriminatory ie to those with legally protected gender critical beliefs. It’s not a hill I would risk my paid employment on but some people might and the litigation on all this is very far from over

Why on earth would you be prosecuted? It’s not a criminal offence to call a male he. In a work sense if it could be harassment is a more complex issue. I’d certainly put in a grievance about his name calling to you though.

second that. ^

Sorry if this has been posted before. It is a video, very short.

Great video.

The pronouns 'she' and 'he' referred to (still refer to?) biological sex or perceived biological sex. Once 'they' is added, it logically follows (because there is no third sex) that 'he' and 'she' can no longer refer to biological sex, either, as the they/thems are also either male or female.

So introducing 'they' as a third person singular pronoun then means that the meaning of 'he' and 'she' is also rewritten, probably as abstract gender identities not based on sex.

There was no public consultation about this rather enormous change...

Given that nobody seems able to give a definition of how it feels to have a feminine or masculine gender identity, I no longer know what my preferred pronouns might be.

If I continue accepting 'she/her', am I now accepting sexist stereotypes about femininity as something that describes me?

Several nonbinary female individuals have argued that they are not women because they reject those stereotypes, and this suggests that they would certainly view my choice of 'she' as evidence that I am comfortable with sexist stereotypes about femininity. It also suggests that the definition of 'woman' in the gender identity ideology could be inherently retrogressive and sexist.

That is my dilemma when considering the idea that it is simply polite to use the preferred pronouns of others. Those pronouns redefine everyone else's pronouns, too, and this is going to be particularly harmful for women and girls.

Thanks again to everyone for a really interesting debate…

Sorry if this has been posted before. It is a video, very short.

twitter.com/hatpinwoman/status/1609506407140794370?s=46&t=vEyeulEv4k-Db50ez5dw8w

I'm don't get it because it isn't how I feel. Just like I don't get religious conviction, or being attracted to the same sex. I don't think we can ever fully grasp someone else's lived experience. And for this reason we don't have the right to condemn it.