How do you speak up without being called transphobic

It is Switzerland. There was something on Twitter yesterday. My understanding is that they refuse to recognise any more than 2 genders so won’t accept a no gender or third gender option for official records. Basically they say that gender (and I’m not sure if they mean sex or gender) as a binary concept (which gender ideology disputes). I believe that they still accept transitioning between the 2.

Oh, and if I was having that same conversation now, but I was my colleague, I would be scared! I didn't call him a transphobe, but I was very openly surprised at his position (he's a very socially-aware, social-justice type person) and challenged him hard.

But he was very calm and patient, explaining it - and it was obvious that his position was reasonable. I certainly remembered the conversation. Now if course, I agree with him, and think it's great that he realised the issue so early!

I try to remember that when my own conversations with friends don't go so well!

Now I never wear women's clothes. Never. But...I wore a skirt, and a frilly sleeved top from the women's section, and heels and makeup. And straightened my hair. Because she was worth it, because I love her. Oh and because I'm also not a homophobe.

? You wore stereotypical feminine clothes to a same sex civil partnership ceremony because you’re not a homophobe? If you had worn unisex clothing, would that mean you are a homophobe? Why was she “worth it” for you to wear “women’s clothes”…did she ask you to? Does she prefer you to dress that way? Why does what you wore matter?

I feel like it's getting increasingly easier. I have started conversations at work which I didn't feel able to a few months ago. I tend to say something like "I'm not transphobic. I'm concerned about the introduction of loopholes that compromise children and women's safety." If anyone disputes that it tells me they have no regard for kids and women.

Lordy, still hijacker focussed.....
Would love to see purple wedding photos, having only attended a red and purple wedding once....
But nearly one of the clock and not a child in the house washed or dressed.
Will bob back later to see if anyone can enlighten me......

Yes, I'm guessing that poster identifies as a different age, as well as a different sex.

Evilbee’s old trope ‘everything is homophobic’ was, I think, very recently made up be Evilbee. It seems that none of us who actually lived through it remember it

The man at the end of my street who I've known since a boy. He's still the same friendly neighbour now he's identifys as a woman, I'd never insult him or call him a name, but I know he's a him and I won't be quite so pleasant if i bump into him in the chathing rooms of the swimming baths, because he's a man. Not because he is a transwoman

EvilBee · Today 01:51
remember the old trope "everything is homophobic" - turns out, they were right, but that old trope is being recycled for transphobia.

That is not true. On the contrary it is trans ideology that can be homophobic.

If a young person is non conforming to sexual stereotypes, say a more feminine presenting boy or a more tomboy-like girl, though most will grow up to be heterosexual, a certain proportion will normally be homosexual. They are increasingly under pressure now to ‘trans their gay away’.

Also, if a transwoman says they are a lesbian and expects a female homosexual to accept them as a sexual partner, that is homophobia and potentially showing a rapist’s sense of entitlement - and vice versa is true too.

This is why the LGB alliance has distanced itself from TQ+

This is also why the Gay Men’s Network wrote this critique about trans ideology in relation to a consultation with the CPS:
Called,
Deception as to Biological sex in cases of rape and serious sexual offences.
static1.squarespace.com/static/6200252604e9795287de2ada/t/636a7c64ebf018723719f151/1667923047685/CPS_Response_Branded.pdf

Plus anyone want to see the lovely photo's from my most amazing of sister's civil ceremony to her (well eventually after the laws changed to finally let them get married rather than civil partnershipped) wife.

They're really quite beautiful.

We all wore purple.

Now I never wear women's clothes. Never. But...

I wore a skirt, and a frilly sleeved top from the women's section, and heels and makeup. And straightened my hair. Because she was worth it, because I love her. Oh and because I'm also not a homophobe.

Have an oppion but don't be transphobic? If it looks transphobic , sounds transphobic it is transphobic

That's really good advice, @RoaringtoLangClegintheDark, to choose someone to speak to one to one, and just one topic to speak about with them: whichever you think they will be most interested in eg sports, or prisons, or the Cass report. Be patient, non-aggressive, and don't expect them to have background knowledge. But they are your friends, and presumably intelligent, ethical people - so hopefully they will eventually understand.

Also, I'd say don't worry too much if you don't think you expressed it brilliantly or they don't come over to your point of view. It takes time, but this is how we get people to think about it for themselves: even to realise that there is something to think about.

It took a long time for me to realise there was something to think about, something amiss. Like most people, I had a generalised woolly #bekind positivity towards Trans people. About 3 years ago, a colleague patiently explained to me why he was protesting against a specific harm to women caused by the Trans Rights movement (Hampstead Ponds in North London becoming unavailable to the local Muslim women because Transwomen insisted using the women's pool as well as the men's and the mixed). After he explained, I agreed it wasn't fair and wished him luck with the protest, but still didn't see that there was a wider problem. It took several more years for the penny to drop - and when it did I felt rather stupid not to have seen the wider context!

Village I find that word offensive because it suggests that, as a woman, I am in a subset of my own sex class. I don’t believe TWAW, I understand that women are women, no other descriptor is needed.

I’m interested in the origin too

Extraordinary how someone hijacked this thread......but I suppose it's a real life example.
The erudition and knowledge and level of debate here is extraordinary.
Thank you Op for raising this thread. Like you, I am here to learn.
I first came across the three letter word that cant be used here at a work meeting to support a 'transitioning' person. I have even forgotten what it was supposed to mean.
I could google it, but can I trust the source?
Could someone who knows kindly explain the origin or why it was invented.? I get that it is considered offensive but dont know why.
If it cannot be used, please refer to it as 'the three letter word'..
Thankyou.

(And do I have a sane left political party I can vote for? No. I do not.)

Yup, happy to share mine too.

Hardly 'right wing'. And definitely not authoritarian. Where as the views of the authoritarian follower personality is so very often evidenced in those busy scolding women for believing in equality for women.

I would add that gender nonconformity doesn't necessarily equal 'people are different.'

Gender is society's rules and expectations imposed upon people, particularly women, which then tries to maintain this is a result of their sex. Rather than their socialisation.

So women should be compliant, feminine, submissive and lady like.

So when men wear make-up and frocks and act feminine, and, crucially maintain this must mean they're women, they are underpinning the gender stereotype.

Whilst, simultaneously, their socialisation remains the same and their actual behaviour is as gender conforming as can be. Dominating women, ignoring boundaries, feeling entitled to, and demanding access to, what's not theirs. It doesn't get more stereotypically 'male'.

Transgender ideology ensures that men fulfil society's gender expectations from start to finish.

What would be gender nonconforming is if man wore what they liked, including feminine clothes, but still called themselves men, did not demand access to things that are women's, and advocated for women's rights. (And not in a transparent, self serving pretendy way, that gc women can spot at fifty paces).

but whenever anyone comes along who is non-conforming, they're as unpleasant as they are with trans ppl.

A life working in construction, as a woman. Since the 80s, not an era particularly enlightened yet to the fact that women had ventured out from the kitchen.

Hmmm I'm just going to go and look in the mirror and have a two minute hate at my reflection.

EvilBee · Today 07:24

Utter nonsense - GC ideology is socially conservative to its core - GCs pretend that they're accepting of difference, but whenever anyone comes along who is non-conforming, they're as unpleasant as they are with trans ppl.

As a still, keep forgetting to cancel the direct debit, fully paid up member of the Labour Party, who can currently swivel on my finger if they think i'm voting for them in the next GE, I am getting rather tired of being labelled, amongst other things, a far right bigot.

But what I thought, as a woman capable of self reflection and willingness to learn, my views of late had pushed me politically.

Maybe I am now a far right bigot.

Who knows? Maybe I should do a test.

This is utterly wrong. You have entirely misunderstood the gender critical feminist position, not least because many, perhaps even most, gender critical feminists are non-conforming!

I won't accuse you of deliberate deception because I understand if you feel attacked it's very natural to slip into seeing other people as boogeyman and cartoon baddies.

I will suggest you:

Stop basing assumptions on your own prejudices and what you hear second hand in trans ideological echo chambers and instead genuinely listen with an open mind to what gender critical feminists are saying and the lived experiences which have lead us to these conclusions.

Stop assuming that because one person who doesn't agree with gender ideology thinks something, everyone who doesn't agree with gender ideology must think the same thing.

Mermaids recently, memorably, explained that safeguarding children is transphobic.
Women having rights and equality is transphobic.
Mentioning women's anatomy and health is transphobic.
Homosexuality is transphobic.
Following a faith or culture that involves boundaries that inconvenience the absolute freedoms of male people is transphobic.
Look Simba, everything the light touches is....

I tend to find when I run through that list with most reasonable people, they start to realise that if the above is 'transphobic' then not being transphobic becomes exceptionally problematic.

OP, I agree. Shrieking ‘transphobe’ is just another version of #nodebate. If someone is calling you transphobic, then I think it’s ok to ask them why what you said is transphobic, to explain in detail. Good luck though, I’ve never found anyone who will!
Many of our visitors here have been asked to explain, but I’ve never seen them reply with any substance. Eg, Evilbee responded conflating talking and challenging with actual violence - and has yet to respond to any request for clarification
I do wonder what Boiled said which was so bad, and had to do with ‘cis’ 😉

@Rheia1983 I think Sparkly mistyped, it’s Sweden, not Switzerland - unless someone else knows otherwise?

By the way, who the fuck is telling you that you shouldn’t go to the police for being physically assaulted? I doubt anyone on this thread. If they are report them to MNHQ because that is not acceptable.

However, nor is it acceptable if you are resorting to lying for some kind of sick ‘gotcha’.