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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman mistaken for a man and challenged

266 replies

h2Oo · 29/12/2022 21:05

Okay, so I'd like some good old reasoning on this as I appreciate a lot of you are more insightful than me!

I believe men have 0 place in women's toilets, changing families or women only spaces.

But this tripped me up... what do I say to this? It popped up on twitter and I don't know what to argument would be

This woman was questioned because she looks too masculine. But she is indeed a biological woman through and through

www.itv.com/news/central/2022-12-26/cancer-survivor-challenged-at-public-toilets-after-being-mistaken-for-a-man

What is the answer? I just don't know

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12
WendelineTestaburger · 30/12/2022 01:08

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ofwarren · 30/12/2022 01:08

ofwarren · 30/12/2022 01:06

Don't zoom in on my image, Google it yourself so you can see.
It's there. Everyone else can see it's there.

I'm on a phone and can see it clearly

Woman mistaken for a man and challenged
ofwarren · 30/12/2022 01:06

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 01:06

I zoom in and it’s still blurred out.

Don't zoom in on my image, Google it yourself so you can see.
It's there. Everyone else can see it's there.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 30/12/2022 01:06

DdraigGoch · 30/12/2022 01:04

If, if, if...

Just how often do you think actual women are getting challenged? As far as I'm aware it's incredibly rare.

The thread in question is about one.
Somebody else on here said they are repeatedly misgendered and laughingly called Sir and it would bother them being challenged.
So not really rare as you make out (how many instances of it happening is ok in your eyes?)

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 01:06

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 01:06

I zoom in and it’s still blurred out.

I’m on an iPad too, so it’s not a small phone screen.

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 01:06

ofwarren · 30/12/2022 00:56

Google yourself and go on images.
Zoom in on the photo I have circled.
The newspaper have blurred out the badge in the article, but not in the thumbnail.
It's clearly the Leicester Mercury, not from twitter.

I zoom in and it’s still blurred out.

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 01:04

Why are some women (I assume) on this thread so keen on women not challenging perceived men in the toilets,

Because there are millions of GNC women, but only thousands of TW…
So this practice is going to harm almost exclusively GNC women. It’s like burning a haystack to try and melt a single needle.
Also, many women have stated that if a suspected TW is physically intimidating, they do not challenge them. It’s even on this thread. Which means that actual males are often not being challenged.
So it’s a fallacy to try and say that all masculine presenting people are being challenged, when they aren’t. So it’s not achieving it’s stated purpose of keeping males out.

Therefore, this practice doesn’t actually stop TW, but only serves to publicly humiliate and stress GNC women/girls.

DdraigGoch · 30/12/2022 01:04

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 30/12/2022 00:23

not conforming to stereotypes is something that is very clearly accepted on this board
All well and good being in social media land and words on a page saying you are, but RL clearly says otherwise if gender non conforming women are getting challenged for not being feminine looking enough, or would feel upset or intimidated being confronted in the toilets when out and about.

If, if, if...

Just how often do you think actual women are getting challenged? As far as I'm aware it's incredibly rare.

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 30/12/2022 01:03

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/12/2022 01:01

Seriously, that is so far from how I think it's just funny. I'm afraid all that stuff is coming out of your own head.

Genuinely glad you didn't mean that, have seen it in the past on here though.
Apologies then if doesn't apply to you

WendelineTestaburger · 30/12/2022 01:03

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LK1972 · 30/12/2022 01:03

@RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella 'weaponising womanhood' 😂😂😂😂😂

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/12/2022 01:01

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 30/12/2022 00:59

I'm not "just a lady". I'm fucking brilliant
I'm sure you are "fucking brilliant" but that's not what I was getting at, which you maybe already know? Or you genuinely don't, who knows.
.
I meant "I'm just a little lady I can't possibly mean any harm, why are people scared we just talk about prams and baking?!" Kind of weaponising womanhood for want of a better expression, it's twisted.

Seriously, that is so far from how I think it's just funny. I'm afraid all that stuff is coming out of your own head.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/12/2022 00:59

@Onnabugeisha

Yes GC women have turned GNC women and girls into cannon fodder. No, I don’t want to turn all women into cannon fodder either. You’re stuck in the web of propaganda that has told you that you must hurt women and girls out of fear for other women and girls. It’s not necessary.

Great! I agree!

What's your solution?

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 30/12/2022 00:59

I'm not "just a lady". I'm fucking brilliant
I'm sure you are "fucking brilliant" but that's not what I was getting at, which you maybe already know? Or you genuinely don't, who knows.
.
I meant "I'm just a little lady I can't possibly mean any harm, why are people scared we just talk about prams and baking?!" Kind of weaponising womanhood for want of a better expression, it's twisted.

ofwarren · 30/12/2022 00:56

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 00:51

I have. Every reputable news site says she is Tiffany Liles-Taylor and uses pronouns if she/her. It is only on Twitter that the weird claim that she actually goes by Taylor and they/them appears along with what looks like a photo lifted from the news and a clear name badge added.

The image you have is from Twitter.

Google yourself and go on images.
Zoom in on the photo I have circled.
The newspaper have blurred out the badge in the article, but not in the thumbnail.
It's clearly the Leicester Mercury, not from twitter.

Woman mistaken for a man and challenged
ofwarren · 30/12/2022 00:52

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 00:51

I have. Every reputable news site says she is Tiffany Liles-Taylor and uses pronouns if she/her. It is only on Twitter that the weird claim that she actually goes by Taylor and they/them appears along with what looks like a photo lifted from the news and a clear name badge added.

The image you have is from Twitter.

Erm, the image is from Google!
Google her yourself and look

LK1972 · 30/12/2022 00:51

My GNC daughter gets challenged on occasion, smiles and replies 'I'm a girl', followed by many apologies by the person challenging. Totally understands why it happens. Perhaps Tiffany could develop some empathy and realise that many women do not think men should be using their toilets?

Why are some women (I assume) on this thread so keen on women not challenging perceived men in the toilets, what are you trying to achieve? More men in women's loos, unisex loos by default, for what purpose?

WendelineTestaburger · 30/12/2022 00:51

This reply has been deleted

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Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 00:51

ofwarren · 30/12/2022 00:36

@Onnabugeisha
It isn't doctored.
Read my post with photos and Google her name yourself.
Click on the image, not the link and you will see the badge in the thumbnail.

I have. Every reputable news site says she is Tiffany Liles-Taylor and uses pronouns if she/her. It is only on Twitter that the weird claim that she actually goes by Taylor and they/them appears along with what looks like a photo lifted from the news and a clear name badge added.

The image you have is from Twitter.

Jetsonsfan · 30/12/2022 00:48

DdraigGoch · 30/12/2022 00:46

metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/

"Just going for a pee"?

I'd prefer to protect the truly vulnerable, thanks. If that means a bit of hurty feelings then that's a risk I'll have to take.

.

Woman mistaken for a man and challenged
FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/12/2022 00:47

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 30/12/2022 00:36

You worry that even a young ‘tomboy’ girl should be raised to handle being confronted by an angry adult in the toilets (you didn't mention this but let's be clear, this wouid specifically be an angry female adult)
So what if it was an angry female adult?! You seem to be implying that it's " only a lady, can't possibly be scary" which is just bull, sorry. An angry adult as a child is just that, an angry adult!
Hate the "I'm just a lady" narrative on here some have when it suits.

No, I'm saying an angry male, on average, is more scary. Bigger, more physical strength, more entitlement.

Hate the "I'm just a lady" narrative on here some have when it suits.

I think you read according to your own prejudices rather than what people are actually saying.

I'm not "just a lady". I'm fucking brilliant. But I also know I'm nowhere near as strong or physically imposing as the average male adult.

DdraigGoch · 30/12/2022 00:46

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 29/12/2022 22:44

I'd rather not be feeling like I was going to get challenged every time I went in a female toilet because I didn't look "feminine" 🙄 enough even though I have every right to be in there, that's more intimidating and threatening to me than the will I or won't I see a trans woman in there going about her business and probably doesn't even give a toss about what others are doing in there and just going for a pee like the rest of us

metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/

"Just going for a pee"?

I'd prefer to protect the truly vulnerable, thanks. If that means a bit of hurty feelings then that's a risk I'll have to take.

Onnabugeisha · 30/12/2022 00:44

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/12/2022 00:31

I'm sorry but you are ignoring the GNC women, some of whom are on this very thread, who say they understand this is happening as a result of trans women pushing female people's boundaries and would rather be challenged themselves than have women afraid to challenge anyone.

And I'm very sorry that the entitlement of trans women, encouraged by genderist activism, has lead to the point where there is no pain free solution. This did not have to happen. There are many ways society could accommodate trans women and it's a real shame that gender ideology insists - well, let's not mince words, lies - that the only option is to appropriate female spaces, resources and emotional safety in service of males. But, given this is where gender activists have chosen to take us, I would rather some female people are unfortunately embarrassed than all female people are made less safe and less confident in order to meet demands of males.

You worry that even a young ‘tomboy’ girl should be raised to handle being confronted by an angry adult in the toilets (you didn't mention this but let's be clear, this wouid specifically be an angry female adult) but apparently aren't worried that the alternative is that young girls will need to be raised to face an angry or over friendly male adult in the toilets instead.

Incidentally, if you are OK for women's toilets to be open to trans women but not other males, who exactly are you expecting to challenge the men who should not be there, and how is that any different to this scenario?

You accuse feminists of turning GNC women into cannon fodder based on the risk they may be challenged, but you want to turn all female people into cannon fodder with a risk of much worse simply to accomodate male demand.

I’m not ignoring them…they are not a concern because they are ok. Are you saying that the women who are challenged and upset about it should just shut up? Sounds like it to me.

I would rather some female people are unfortunately embarrassed than all female people are made less safe and less confident in order to meet demands of males.. Yes well why does it have to be this binary choice of hurt girls and women to potentially protect some other girls and women? (Let’s not kid ourselves, it’s not some vs all, it’s some vs some.)

Incidentally, if you are OK for women's toilets to be open to trans women but not other males. I’m not ok for womens toilets to be used by males, but I’m also not ok for GNC women to be accosted in toilets either. Being against one thing, doesn’t have to mean you are in favour of the other.

You accuse feminists of turning GNC women into cannon fodder based on the risk they may be challenged, but you want to turn all female people into cannon fodder with a risk of much worse simply to accomodate male demand.

Yes GC women have turned GNC women and girls into cannon fodder. No, I don’t want to turn all women into cannon fodder either. You’re stuck in the web of propaganda that has told you that you must hurt women and girls out of fear for other women and girls. It’s not necessary.

waterwitch · 30/12/2022 00:41

I would far rather my daughter was questioned by a woman in the toilets than that Katie Dolatowski got in there and tried to rape her. It is no good just pretending that doesn’t happen

RedAndBlueStripedGolfingUmbrella · 30/12/2022 00:40

Someone made a mistake. Shit happens. No one died as a result.
No one died that's ok then.
Shit happens?!
Nice.
Fuck women, if they are physically or verbally. challenged in the toilets and feel threatened
Shit happens.
Wow

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