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Original poster

Am I a TERF?

155 replies

PurplePalms · 28/12/2022 14:11

Discovered today a family member (male) is dating a transwoman.

Absolutely no idea on the status of her transition, hormones/surgery etc. as that’s her business. I have met her a handful of times and she is polite and pleasant. A very nice person.

My family member doesn’t know I know because …

I was having a snoop at her Facebook page, saw old posts and photos from when she was younger living as a male and recently saw a post from her stating “Transmen are real men. Transwomen are real women”.

This just didn’t sit right with me.

For what it’s worth, I’d consider myself quite liberal. I don’t discriminate on sexuality, race, age, gender etc. If you’re born a man and feel like you want to medically transition and vice Versa, that’s fine, do your thing and accept you’re trans.

BUT, to then say you are a real woman. Even though you were born genetically male and (most likely) have male genitalia- you can’t be a real woman? You can’t possibly understand how it feels to be a woman. Hormonally, emotionally, physically and socially.

Part of me feels awful for feeling this way. Like I am a bad person. Obviously I would never say to her face “you are not a real woman” never in a million years would I want to cause someone upset, start drama etc. Am I a terf? Do I sound awful?

OP posts:
Mollyollydolly · 28/12/2022 21:55

Everyone is a terf, even Owen Jones and Eddie Izzard. They just can't admit it. Welcome to reality and truth.

Boiledbeetle · 28/12/2022 21:41

The feeling of hopelessness when you’re visiting a male GP or male gynaecologist and they and tell you to take paracetamol when dealing with excruciatingly painful periods and masses of blood clots.

I feel you sister. Although at least with the men you can stand your ground and fight you're corner because they have no frame of reference having never had a period etc. In this one you simply tell them they cannot possibly ever know what it feels like and you expect better care from them and that they should listen to the woman in front of them actually experiencing it. It usually shocks them into prescribing something better than paracetamol.

The worst care in this regard that i got was from a female doctor who's never had a long, or painful or heavy period in her life and so refused to believe me that I was flooding before I'd even made it back out of the toilet.

Original poster
PurplePalms · 28/12/2022 21:33

JellySaurus · 28/12/2022 21:12

How can you know that what you feel, as a woman, is the same as what I feel, what JK Rowling feels, what Scott Nugent feels, what Nicola Sturgeon feels, what any woman feels? The only thing we all have in common is that we all have two X chromosomes and the complete lack of a Y chromosome. Not whether or not we identify as women.

The feeling of dread when you’re walking alone in the dark and a man is walking a few steps behind you.

The feeling of confusion when a complete strange man comes over and tells you to “smile”.

The feeling of being uncomfortable when men catcall you and whistle at you from across the street, from a car window, from a building site.

The feeling of being utterly terrified when you’ve politely turned a man down in a bar because you’re not interested, but he won’t take no for an answer and becomes hostile.

The feeling of anguish when men make jokes to you about “getting back in the kitchen” and other sexist stereotypes.

The feeling of hopelessness when you’re visiting a male GP or male gynaecologist and they and tell you to take paracetamol when dealing with excruciatingly painful periods and masses of blood clots.

The feeling of embarrassment and being “dirty” when you realise your period blood has leaked through to your trousers.

Being at an unfair advantage in the workplace. Being expected to be SAHM and doing majority of childcare. Being expected to be sexually submissive. Having illnesses or mental health issues and it being blamed on “the time of the month” “going through the changes”.

This is what it feels like to be a woman, IMO. I have these types of discussions with my female family members and female friends. I’ve never spoken to one woman who doesn’t know what it feels like to be a woman in todays society.

Granted, yes, every woman’s experience of life will be different. But we sure do have a lot more in common than chromosomes.

OP posts:
ApocalipstickNow · 28/12/2022 21:31

I don’t even know if what I feel is woman at all.

i didn’t feel at all feminine when I was pregnant, which is when a lot of women seem to say they felt it the most.

mostly I feel tired and achy.

Boiledbeetle · 28/12/2022 21:19

I have just realised on my post punctuation would have been nice, I meant to say... Oh I don't know. Full stop. there is that feeling...

Totally changed my meaning, bloody punctuation doing a specific job and changing the meanings of things when they wander of f to punctuate how they like.

I wish there was something that we all as a woman had in common, other than the chromosome thing, as that argument gets old quick, that defined us as woman. A feeling, a trait, something, anything. It would make this a while lot easier wouldn't it.

JellySaurus · 28/12/2022 21:12

How can you know that what you feel, as a woman, is the same as what I feel, what JK Rowling feels, what Scott Nugent feels, what Nicola Sturgeon feels, what any woman feels? The only thing we all have in common is that we all have two X chromosomes and the complete lack of a Y chromosome. Not whether or not we identify as women.

Boiledbeetle · 28/12/2022 21:10

Oh I don't know there is that feeling you get sometimes when things are just going tits up for (insert to many to mention reasons why here) it washes over you like a blanket of fog and anger and regret and sadness and despair and resignation and you know, you just Fucking know if you were a male this would not be happening to you today.

or maybe that's just me

Original poster
PurplePalms · 28/12/2022 20:57

How does it feel to be a woman? There will be certain experiences shared between member of the same sex and how they are treated in society, however, a feeling is always personal. There is no one "feeling like a woman"

I disagree.

OP posts:
MrGHardy · 28/12/2022 20:52

"how it feels to be a woman"

How does it feel to be a woman? There will be certain experiences shared between member of the same sex and how they are treated in society, however, a feeling is always personal. There is no one "feeling like a woman".

"Do I sound awful?"

That depends on who you ask. But fwiw no, of course not.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 28/12/2022 20:28

OP, this thread may help

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

ADreamIsAllINeedToGetBy · 28/12/2022 19:45

It amuses me that TRAs get themselves in such a state if you write transwoman instead of trans woman as the space is so terribly important but then use the term TERF instead of TWERF. They know full well that it's males we are excluding from our feminism but by calling us TERFs means they are omitting the space

ArabellaScott · 28/12/2022 19:03

It is always about male and female, not about trans and not trans.

100%.

Funny how male behavioural patterns persist so clearly.

nilsmousehammer · 28/12/2022 18:48

Also note the ever familiar refrain that if you'd just sympathetically listen to and prioritise the feelings and voice of a person who identifies as TQ+, all would fall into place...

you will never, ever find anywhere, any exhortation to try sympathetically listening to and caring about a female who needs a female only space. Which tells you everything you need to know really.

It is dimorphic sex based thinking. Heavily misogyinistic sex based thinking. The 't friendly' space mentioned (as being so much better than this woman centred one) would be one heavily biased in favour of biological males and fine with using, oppressing, excluding and abusing biological females. It will all be dressed up in a lot of word salad but that's what it will come down to.

nilsmousehammer · 28/12/2022 18:43

littleburn · 28/12/2022 18:39

I think that's how many of us have ended up here OP - the dawning realisation that the current trans rights movement is based on the belief that there's absolutely no material difference between you and I and men who identify as women. Essentially it advocates for the eradication of biological sex (in social practice and in law) and the primacy of gender identity.

This.

Although I would add: it is not the primacy of gender identity so much as the primacy of biological males claiming a gender identity, over female biological realities, needs, access and inclusion.

It remains entirely sex based, and reflective of entirely dimorphic sex based thinking. It is always about male and female, not about trans and not trans.

littleburn · 28/12/2022 18:39

I think that's how many of us have ended up here OP - the dawning realisation that the current trans rights movement is based on the belief that there's absolutely no material difference between you and I and men who identify as women. Essentially it advocates for the eradication of biological sex (in social practice and in law) and the primacy of gender identity.

Boiledbeetle · 28/12/2022 18:21

He's on a pub crawl, I've been about half a pint behind him on a couple of thread.

JellySaurus · 28/12/2022 18:20

They seem to have given up on this thread, but they've not given up entirely: now they're claiming that not teaching gender ideology to children is another Section 28 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4706367-petition-against-teaching-gender-identity-ideology-in-rse-lessons-in-schools?reply=122606603

YoBeaches · 28/12/2022 18:12

Helleofabore · 28/12/2022 18:04

Think. Not a double this.

It would have been interesting to read a different perspective.

But they don't have one, though.

Their perspective is - Transwomen are Women STFU TERF. You're boring me. -> exit.

How many times have we seen it now?

What a div.

Boiledbeetle · 28/12/2022 18:08

I'm annoyed he didn't stick around to answer the single sex discos bad autocorrect wrong word question on behalf of trans people everywhere.

I thought as the squeaker of the new free world he would at least answer a simple one.

Obviously trained under Nicola.

Helleofabore · 28/12/2022 18:04

Think. Not a double this.

It would have been interesting to read a different perspective.

Helleofabore · 28/12/2022 18:03

Mind you, I did this this poster would stay and answer questions.

I mean, they hypocritically appointed themselves as the speaker for a huge group of diverse people, including trying to convince us that they also speak for females with a trans identity and encouraged the OP to visit and ‘talk’ with trans people, yet ignored any questions that they, a self appointed designate, felt ‘too boring’ to answer.

Why on earth would anyone bother to post questions on a trans forum with that example of behaviour from a self-appointed trans spokesperson?

Good thing we actually DO know trans people in real life @EvilBee so we know that actually, you literally don’t represent them.

DialSquare · 28/12/2022 17:55

Indeed Boiled.

Boiledbeetle · 28/12/2022 17:53

DialSquare · 28/12/2022 17:19

I suspect that any lurkers who were not TERFs reading this, will be now.

Job done then😁I've always said they do it for us.

FrancescaContini · 28/12/2022 17:53

PS Bye, @EvilBee
Judging by your excessive use of the words “literally” and “like”, I estimate you’re probably, literally, like 19.

Boiledbeetle · 28/12/2022 17:51

And it's very telling isn't it

The introduction from our friend

Hiya, Trans person here,

Just like all those posts that start

Hiya, man here.

They can't help themselves.