Secretary of State for Scotland looking at using Westminster powers to overule gender recognition bill

I have said this on another thead, but feel I have to repeat it here.

The vote today has not changed the basis on which single sex exemptions are applied as this is under the EA.

Our problem remains the same as it was before the vote. Too few people including women's groups value or want to bother with women only provision.

Rather than getting the issue bogged down into a political party fight between Tories and SNP we should be actively campaigning for and getting more spaces to operate under the existing rights provided by the EA.

ie why aren't health services and prisons using the single sex exemption?

Why did Girl Guides give up on this?

This isn't about politicians imposing something out of the ordinary on the population. As we have seen whether shops or theatres, nobody respects women and nobody respects women's right to same sex provision. The option to do this exists under the law even after today's vote but people dont care.

And it isn't just that Stonewall etc., have brainwashed the media etc., but when asked most people wouldn't have thought about it.

We need to campaign to make sure that the option under the EA for single sex provision is expanded. Its not about changing the wording. It is about making peope care enough about women to implement it.

@SirChenjins I couldn't see a response in the thread, so here goes :)

Section 28 and the very real persecution of gay people in the 80s related to sexual orientation and the right of same sex couples to be together and be recognised as having a right to love or fancy who they loved or fancied. It had zero impact on non gay people.

Transgender rights are not the same because the argument is not about sexuality in the way the gay rights argument was. It is fundamentally about the common understanding of how we categorise men and women which affects everybody.

Unless, of course, it IS a sexuality - in which case it is problematic for women who don't want to be used as props in someone's fetish.

If it is not about sexuality it is not the same. If it is it is a problem for women.

order-order.com/2022/12/22/westminster-government-could-block-scottish-trans-bill/

"A source close to Kemi Badenoch – the Equalities secretary who has been incredibly scathing of the legislation – also tells Guido:
“Kemi’s overriding concern is the safety of women and girls. The SNP have pushed this Bill through without any thought to its wider implications.""

I’m not for independence but I can see WM intervening as pushing it along.

But I stand with women on this issue. Yet I don’t want it to be something that furthers the break up of the UK

Anyway it’s out of my hands. Hopefully both things will work out or neither which would be awful

Thanks to all who are responding to the above. Your points make complete sense.

I'm already on WRN's mailing list, but will now actively seek to join. I've also hugely admired the work Sarah Phillimore has done in taking on this monster - think it was WPUK she was involved with - I'll contact them too.

I can do without being outed in my profession, but quite frankly I've reached a point where I'm beyond this. I'm professional enough to keep personal opinions out of my workplace - unlike the vocal 'allies' - but I have a right to hold this view, and the right to join any organization outside of work I want to join.

Sick and tired of being held to ransom by this aggressive movement.

Absolutely! Do it now whilst you’re angry and before female socialisation kicks in tomorrow. DM a group on Twitter, DM a group on FB. It’s not that scary. Someone will probably want to meet you for a cuppa (or pint) to make sure you are not a bad actor and then all of a sudden you will have a new network of rational, reality based friends. I’ve just been on an Xmas jaunt with our lot and we met up with another group, it’s really good for mental health during these crazy times. And you don’t have to be part of direct action - you can help in the background.

Alex Massie
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scotlands-gender-bill-is-a-worry-for-labour-899wvxd8d

Look at it this way.

Independence is a long term thing and will keep on coming back.

Your rights, once gone, won't. The women raped in prisons can't be unraped. The women excluded from facilities, services, who stayed in dangerous relationships because they couldn't use the mixed sex refuge and the brainwashing prescribed as the price of entry? The harm to them can't be undone either.

I was at the Scottish Parliament demonstrating this week. I am devastated at the result but Gov UK should NOT intervene. Scotland has made its bed and can lie in it! Any over rule will fuel the Indy agenda that big bad Westminster controls Scotland. Let people see and feel the consequence of voting SNP.
Sturgeon is even more despised now than before. Dont rescue her.

Seconding what @Whatthechicken said. Join your local WRN, now!
We have to be coordinated.
The time for 'be kind' is long gone.

A Section 35 woudl prevent Royal Assent, so the Bill wouldn't even come into effect.

*UK

I’m also of the opinion that local women’s groups - ReSisters, WRN, SFW etc. need to coordinate more - strength in numbers and impact. And we are amazing when we organise - leave them no where to hide. If you are not already in a local group - join one. If you worry for your job, you can use any skills you have to help whether that be press, designing leaflets, letter writing, coordinating, admin, vetting new members - anything helps - you don’t have to be on the press photos, you can help from the background. We are under attack - and there is the very real possibility that in 2 years, the whole of the IK could be adopting self ID. Let’s do something now.

From another angle I’d worry about WM pushing people to self iD and independence

So I’m torn between two things I care about

It's a big gamble that neutral or No voters in Scotland will fall for self-ID.

I'm Scottish. I'm uneasy about how WM intervenes. Boris was trying his damnedest to dial back devolution. A lot of people who don't care about Scotland or women are jumping on the self-id bill as a way to put Scotland back in its box.

In the short-term do I want this bill stalled or repealed? Yes. In the long-term do I want self-id to be the Trojan horse introduced by the Tories that means they pull back on devolved powers? No.

If WM turns this into an independence issue by proxy then I worry they'll push people who are neutral into self-id supporters. If WM can intervene without trying to claw back even more powers, then it buys Scottish women more time.

But WM involvement will be viewed with cynicism. After all there are lots of areas of life where the TRA agenda has crept into English and Welsh life eg schools, police. And WM has been slow to try to counter them with legislation and court cases.

How did all this even start? Seems to be spreading throughout western countries.

Please use whatever you want. Writing is one of the biggest things you can do to support other women.

My MP would be one worth writing to, I think.

I'm uneasy with Westminster interference in devolved politics, and would be interested to hear what Scottish members think about this point. But at this point, for me, this issue takes precedence over all others. This is the worst assault on women's rights I've witnessed in my lifetime, and it leaves those over the border in a terrible position. It has to be fought with every bit of pushback we can muster.

@nilsmousehammer that is an excellent post. There are several points in it that I'd like to convey to my MP, if that's okay.

I've bookmarked this thread.

Agreed.
I was a hard yes. Now I'm an "over my dead body NO".
All Nippy Sweetie's doing, along with her mentally ill green pals.

oh and 4) Make it a LOT easier for people experiencing discrimination and prejudice blocking them from any access to a service because TQ+ political bias doesn't like them, to get legal support and redress. And stop TQ+ political groups trying to discourage and punish anyone seeking justice by trying to bankrupt them through escalating costs and time, or to stress them to the point they give up.

If Westminster strikes it down (or even talks about it) we get more sunlight on the detail. It's not about being kind to effeminate men and masculine women. Everyone will see it. Bring it on

This.

Several steps are needed.

1. Sort out the Equality Act and be very clear sex and gender are not the same, and defined single sex spaces are restricted only to users of that biological sex. Gender identification, degree of transition and GRCs have no bearing on this.

2. Then sort out funding and legalities also connected to the Equality Act that in order to ensure females are not excluded from female services in the desire to be nice to males, that all authorities, public services and facilities must ensure an accessible single sex space for females alongside accessible spaces for everyone else. This will probably involve a mixed sex space. Males may want one too, but that's their problem, they can go and sort that out, women are busy.

3. Then sort out policing and law to be VERY clear that when the inevitable few males attempt to deceive or force their ways into the designated single sex female spaces there will be real and decisive actions taken with consequences for attempting to invade the space of those females and depriving them of equality of access. Police turning up to stand around vaguely will have their arses handed to them by the MoJ.

There will be a mess - there is a mess, it's now bulging out from under the rug and it's this big because of truly stupid, lazy and cowardly politicians who have hoped if they did nothing that women would suck it all up quietly and they wouldn't have to get their hands dirty. So fuck that.

There will be tantrums and wails and howls. It'll pass. If there are accessible spaces for TQ+ identified people they have no need to enter single sex spaces and deprive other people of equality of access, and it has to be established that there is no human right to have your identity choices met at the expense of other people's equality and access.

Otherwise, the taxes of biological women need to be massively reduced, and men can pay more. Wtf should we pay for services that increasing numbers of us can't use and have no fucks to give about us?

It’s become evident how alarmingly close some Green MSPs and staff are to the layer of “activists” who like to post publicly their fantasies about beating up women. I don’t want any of them being able to access my name and address. I would go so far as to advise avoiding any contact with members of the Scottish Green Party.

Starting to work on my letter to my MP now.
I will certainly add that the legal fiction that is the GRA just HAS to be repealed. It was only invented to permit same sex marriage, which is now legal. The GRA must go.