What will happen with the Scottish trans people who change their minds??

It’ll end in a huge pile of litigation, just like the transgender surgery on kids in Thailand did. Thailand didn’t change the law to prevent the horrible damage being done to the children, but they did change the law to prevent those operations being done after the children grew up and sued.

The government won’t do mucb to protect kids until the kids grow up and sue.

Not how governing a country should be, is it. 😢

There is a (previously) fairly uncontroversial principal that children should be protected from any action they can't change their mind about in future.

This is why they aren't allowed to get a tattoo, after all. And tattoos can be removed. This seems to be a violation of that princial.

Well at least Kinnon McKinnon is making some sense and getting discussion out there. But how unsurprising that they as a female have experienced abuse and threats discussing it. How many male transgender researchers would push through to find the truth? How many males want to maintain the silence?

They spent 6 years on this. 6 years making sure no one changed any part of the bill instead of spending the 6 years actually investigating and analysing the bill. What a wasted opportunity.

I know roughly 10 people who would describe themselves as non-binary/trans, I'd say 7 of then have identified as such within the past 18 months, and most of them are under 25.

I also know at least 3 people who have detransitioned.

I think that there will be a lot of people getting GRCs and then regretting it, I just hope that if they do they haven't undergone surgery that they regret.

This x 100

When the government of your country wholeheartedly endorses the concept that you can change sex, that transgenderism is real and it's based on superficial, ever changing feelings, there are going to be absolutely numerous children buying into the whole thing, and wanting the hormones and the surgery.

It's a disgusting abuse perpetrated on an entire generation.

It seems the very concept of legal detransitioning isn't acknowledged or allowed. You just continue to transition, to alternate sexes. Until you stop.

Prosecution for fraudulently making an application has absolutely zero way of ever being processed. Despite the threat of it.

And yes, young teens having gone through the process are going to feel utterly intimidated if they think they've made a mistake.

Absolute shit show of ludicrous, unworkable laws, based on a total departure from reality, and in the teeth of opposition everywhere.

It is total madness. If a person has vast amounts of money spent on them by NHS if they change their mind like many do they should pay themselves for any additional surgery.

Not only that the logic of 'it's ok to change gender at 16 because y or can marry at 16' - who now would be anything other than dismayed if their kid got married under the age of 21?

So cavalier with this ruling.

I vaguely remember Keira Bell saying this had affected her?

Yes I think Keira said in an interview that there's no straightforward way to reverse a GRC therefore she is still legally male.

But what happens when at least some of them grow up and change their minds about wanting to be the opposite sex? Will they really be pursued for committing a criminal offence?

I'll let you know in a few years time. I expect my family will find out the hard way because my DC is over 18 but not much. And a lifetime is very long time to not change your mind about a decision made in your early twenties.

Maybe I should have put a after this but:-

"And Dr Marci Bowers seems particularly lovely:-"

I just read this from Reuters, it's from Toronto btw, and very long.

The bit about how long the Dutch take before transitioning takes is a bit of a contrast to Scotland's 3 months.

And Dr Marci Bowers seems particularly lovely:-

www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-outcomes/

Aside from the fact that it is nigh on impossible to prove someone is no longer living in their permanent gender as none of that is defined in the bill, doesn't this mean that detransitioners get stuck with paperwork that no longer reflects how they feel? I vaguely remember Keira Bell saying this had affected her?

I used to be so impressed by Nicola Sturgeon. I’m very disappointed that she’s taken this stance.

I think the idea is that if it was done in good faith but people change their minds it isn’t a criminal offence. Bit like marriage. People probably don’t know what this means so it may well encourage young people not to detransition. It’s ridiculous really. I frequently see more trans men now saying that they are NBs (whatever that means) so it is obvious that gender (for those who live their lives thinking it is important) is fluid. Also if you look at any of the studies on development, teenagers are risk takers - consequences are not thought through. Bit like the Scottish Governments current legislation on gender recognition.

To quote the Pub Landlord - 'They didn't think it though did they squire'.

ScotGov have said that the route to reverse a GRC will be as straightforward as the route to obtain one. However, they were repeatedly asked to formally include this in the Bill and they refused. This point was again raised with the committee, but they chose to ignore it.

So, in theory, if you ignore the threat of criminal penalties for false declarations (which, IMO, will effectively trap vulnerable individuals who may have detransitioner but are too scared to apply to reverse), the indication is that there is no way to ANNUL a GRC- the individual would obtain a new GRC, albeit one in their birth sex (yes, I know saying “birth sex” is ridiculous). ScotGov have refused to clarify this as well.

This is a bug bear of mine which I have been raising since January and it has been breezily brushed away by those involved with the Bill. Only Rachael Hamilton has expressed concern and tried to examine it.

Only worse, if they've had physical alterations.

Presumably if someone gains a GRC and years later changes their mind they'll be in the same boat as they were before it was granted.

It is fucking mental.

One of the people voting for it literally said on the radio 'we received all sorts of submissions' and then when asked about one said 'I didn't read it'.

I mean, what the fuck?

The more detail I read about this bill the more convinced I am that it was drawn up on the back of a fag packet, in the pub, close to closing time when everyone was hammered.