What does living as a woman actually mean?

This is being discussed by Shelagh Fogarty on LBC at the moment, she's handling it brilliantly!

Well, the women in Afghanistan can specify what it is like to live as a woman quite clearly. Perhaps 3 months living there would help the transition?

I was at a party the other week where a game was played; five people given a story to tell, for one it's the truth,the other four are lying and trying to get you to believe it. One story referenced some mild teenage burglary. One of the people telling this story is trans. As I'm being told her story we sort of get to the end and she says,"I guess it was my inner girl coming out." I'm not a bastard so obviously I didn't contradict the statement but WHAT?! In what world is a girl's adolescent rite of passage doing burglary?!

So, to some people it's clear that living as a woman means anything they want it to because instead of redefining what it's like to live as a man and changing patriarchal bullshit, they want to take over womanhood.

It’s simply not how identification works. Identification is as much, if not almost entirely, about how other people identify you. How society at large perceives you in relation to a set of (often problematic) categories.

Indeed! I believe Scotland's national poet had something to say about seeing ourselves as others see us. But that was then, of course...

What will you do?

They only need to look at Mrs Doubtfire and Tootsie to know exactly what to do

I for one can't wait to see one in my gym changing room

‘Woman’ is what I am, not what I do.

We need to be careful, if not possessive, of our verbs and nouns, never mind our pronouns.

What can’t be described, can’t be protected.

Language matters. Women and girls’ rights matter.

There is no way to answer this without it being ridiculous so I'm going to have a try.

I reckon you'll need to provide the following type of evidence:

(All the following receipts should be dated within the last three months)

Receipt from nailbar for set of gels
Receipt from a 'Ladies' hairdresser for cut, colour and blow-dry
Receipt from Eyebrow bar for eyebrow threading/shaping
Receipt from Boots/Superdrug for products such as strawberry & vanilla bubble bath, glittery bath bomb, nail varnish, make-up, tissues (for all the crying you'll do)
Receipt from Claire's Accessories for headbands, bangles, earrings, lipgloss
Proof of ownership or borrowing of any Maeve Binchy, Sophie Kinsella or other 'female' books from an 'approved' list
Proof of multiple purchases of lingerie, M&S knickers, stockings, high-heeled footwear and foundation garments
Birthday/Christmas cards addressed to your new female name by verifiable acquaintances

Not an exhaustive list as I'm sure there are other things that can prove 'womanly' credentials for 'living as a woman'.

For trans men:
Ownership of a dicky bow/tie and/or braces, plaid shirt, Lynx
Evidence of ability to man-spread and perfect a quizzical/concentrating serious face while rubbing your chin.
Receipt for the ownership of weights and/or membership of a gym
Receipt for boxer shorts, men's socks
Receipt for the purchase of hair trimmer for buzz cuts or receipt from local barber

Honestly - what is this evidence going to be?? It surely can't just be down to changing the name on a gas bill? Who is going to review this evidence in a way that won't 'traumatise' a prospective applicant. Admin, as we know, is a terrible obstacle.

We just are women, so any way we live is living as a woman.

@FlirtsWithRhinos, perfectly put!

Is it being talked over at meetings, not being listened to, and having your ideas stolen by male colleagues and presented as their own?

Thought not.

Nope. You can even keep your beard. See Alex, who describes self as a lesbian, and works for Stonewall UK. Alex even tours schools, giving talks about being a lesbian.

Wales Online

What if I'm a man called Alex who wants to become a TW called Alex?
Do I have to change my name to Alexis or something to prove I've become a woman? 🤔

This.

Yep this. I love my DH and he does a lot, but there are still certain jobs that seem to fall automatically to me. Maybe that's what it's all about. Maybe "have you seen your career take a nosedive" and "do you organise your family's Christmas single-handedly" should be one questions on the 'checklist'... 🙄🙄

@musicalfrog this is an excellent point

I wish I could 'like' these messages. I'd spend all day 'liking' the majority of the feminist board. This is where the sense is, the wit and the intelligence.
I love your story, @BlessedKali

You’ve hit the nail on the head. All single sex spaces will immediately become mixed sex as a result, Rape Crisis Centres included. How depressing for the real women of Scotland. Glad the UK government is not going down this route, at least not the present one.

So if you can be a woman in Scotland but a man in England when does this process start?

is it a bit like the Incredible Hulk. You start in Scotland in a pretty dress, lipstick, long hair & heels then as you cross the border you’re dressed like a docker with a 5 o’clock shadow?

😂

Does a new birth certificate get generated each time you decide to change sex? I was reading an article yesterday where they talked about birth certificate corrections. If you transition then decided to detransition etc do you end up with with a pile of documentation at the end?

Listening to someone talk on this there’s a fair amount of complexity when people leave Scotland to England.

Won’t try and recap as didn’t catch it all. But something about being a woman / man in Scotland but not England

Yes and taking selfies with their head cocked to one side, hand covering the Adam’s apple and pouting for Scotland.

How can anyone think it reasonable to pass legislation which benefits certain individuals while harming women, children, opposite sex oriented people, people who need intimate care, etc. and it hinges on members of the general public having to call a man a woman?

That the proof of the man being a woman, in the legislation is other people - even against their will - calling him a woman.*

Absurd, obscene and I do not consent.

Humans can't change sex. A woman is an adult human female. No man will ever be a woman.

*none of the arguments for it are reasonable but this is simply INSANE

In Spain the proposals include massive fines for “transphobia” Presumably misgendering will be punished severely . Agree we must stop complying with coercive instructions. If we all refused, what would happen.

This!