Page 2 | What does living as a woman actually mean?

astrowars · 2022-12-21T21:39:10+00:00

So if the Scottish parliament votes for the new law, and someone can obtain a certificate stating they're a woman because they have lived as one for 3 months ... is there a definition, description or checklist to ensure the individual has done everything needed? I have a horrid feeling I may now not be a woman under such a definition!

Noonesperfect · 22/12/2022 22:38

Exhausteddog · 22/12/2022 08:02

I wonder whether there are any stats on how many men feel trapped in the wrong body and wish to live or identify as a woman in Iraq or Afghanistan..?

Excellent point. This made me laugh 🤣. I'm guessing about mmmm 🤔 0 %

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 22/12/2022 20:15

VioletLemon · 22/12/2022 15:25

If there are no mysoginist alterior motives then why can't these men use the MEN'S Toilets?! If there is a problem then it needs sorted out in the male domain. Women and girls are not safety blankets.

This one was bragging about going to the women's toilets in a group because the group wanted to employ "strength in numbers".

In other words, they wanted to intimidate women. Why not use your "strength in numbers" to use the men's toilets you're allegedly too scared to use?

What does living as a woman actually mean?

howmanybicycles · 22/12/2022 16:56

So we have this surreal situation where TRA types are up in arms at the idea trans women may be excluded from some women-only provisions even though their concept of womanhood cannot explain what makes the provisions necessary in the first place. "Woman" becomes so empty of meaning that in practice it means nothing more than "a person who uses the women's facilities".

Yes indeed an actually a large percentage of actual women will also be excluded if we actually literally followed the dogma because most women do not identify as women or perform the femininity which most TA crave.

Chrysanthemum5 · 22/12/2022 16:40

FlirtsWithRhinos · 22/12/2022 01:52

Of course if you dig down into this at all these are very superficial things. They are the accidents of womanhood, not the essence of it. They are, though, I suppose, the kinds of things you'd do if you were disguising yourself as a woman to escape the draft, or some other reason.

They are also the only signifiers of womanhood that male people can access.

In order to allow male people to be women, womanhood for all women has to be limited to only things that can be achieved by males even though this change, so crucial to trans women's identy as women, makes the concept of womanhood superficial and almost entirely meaningless.

If all aspects of womanhood must be achieveable by males, then the only aspect that can be achieved by a trans woman but not another male is the act of identifying itself. There is no space for anything which is unique to womanhood. There is no essence.

So we have this surreal situation where TRA types are up in arms at the idea trans women may be excluded from some women-only provisions even though their concept of womanhood cannot explain what makes the provisions necessary in the first place. "Woman" becomes so empty of meaning that in practice it means nothing more than "a person who uses the women's facilities".

@FlirtsWithRhinos you have explained exactly what it was about all this that I couldn't find the words for. I will use your brilliant explanation

WeeBisom · 22/12/2022 16:38

Haha so getting a PhD doesn’t just neuter you, but it makes you a man. Anyone remember the British airways glitch where female doctors were told their gender didn’t match the doctor title ? Seriously though, given that dr is unisex does this mean it’s a non binary as opposed to feminine title ? Would I be refused a gra for not living as a woman?

Flowersfield · 22/12/2022 16:30

The fact that its got to this point where we are questioning what it means to be a woman is mind boggling. For me, every month, my raging hormones remind me its literally blood, sweat and tears!

Borgonzola · 22/12/2022 16:13

Well for me this week it has meant

All night feeds with my sleep-regressed baby, because partner is 'too tired' despite getting far more sleep than me
picking up all the small presents and food left over for the big day
wrapping everything
coordinating visits to both families
collecting and dropping off parcels
coordinating cat sitter
most of the laundry and cleaning / tidying not done by cleaner
deciding what to eat and shopping
all care for baby during the day

I haven't washed my hair for days and I can't remember the last time I wore anything other than shoes it's easy to stuff my feet into.

Emotional labour, lack of sleep and mental juggling are what womanhood is to me.

TenzingNorgay · 22/12/2022 16:06

dementedpixie · 22/12/2022 07:46

I see it causing chaos in schools too if they will allow 16 year olds to change their gender. I would hate to be a teacher and have to deal with this shit

In Scotland, those that remotely question it are 're-educated' in correct gender speak by some overpaid EDI wonk.

Ofcourseshecan · 22/12/2022 15:57

Cattenberg · 22/12/2022 00:04

I’ve felt a lot of sympathy for trans women when they’ve pointed out that they just can’t win regarding personal presentation. If they wear a dress, heels and make-up, they’re accused of seeing womanhood as a stereotype or costume. If they wear unisex clothes and no make-up, they’re accused of not being genuine.

However, might this suggest that it’s impossible to square the circle? Is there any definition of “woman” that makes sense other than “adult, human female”?

The problem is that both those accusations are true. Solidly, irrefutably true. As you say, the only honest definition is adult human female.

Oblomov22 · 22/12/2022 15:56

Only 3 months? What nonsense.

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 22/12/2022 15:46

oh God, it isn't even Ms, it's Miss. What is this, the 1980s?

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 22/12/2022 15:42

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/12/2022 10:12

from the uk government website

You’ll need copies of evidence to show that you’ve been living in your affirmed gender for the last 2 years.

Each piece of evidence should contain at least one of the following that matches up with your affirmed gender:

a name
a title, like ‘Mr’ or ‘Miss’
a gender marker, like ‘male’ or ‘female’

so lady names are a thing and start lying about your sex as soon as possible!

what a shit show

repeal the GRA

Mr or Ms really? So getting a PhD neutered me?

FourChimneys · 22/12/2022 15:34

I was pondering this earlier today when I was in our small piece of woodland. Dressed in jeans, steel toe capped boots and an old jacket of DHs. Up a ladder welding a hedge trimmer or using a pickaxe on some troublesome tree roots.

Still a woman though, due to my xx chromosomes.

There is no reliable definition other than chromosomes, everything else is a fantasy.

NothingButAWalkover · 22/12/2022 15:26

There's one who's started his own thread to gloat about being allowed to trample over womens boundaries, ask him

VioletLemon · 22/12/2022 15:25

If there are no mysoginist alterior motives then why can't these men use the MEN'S Toilets?! If there is a problem then it needs sorted out in the male domain. Women and girls are not safety blankets.

VioletLemon · 22/12/2022 15:21

Yes!!

VioletLemon · 22/12/2022 15:16

These men would be accepted if they were choosing to wear wigs, make up, dresses, heels etc. That would challenge stereotypes. But claiming to BE woman and the false breasts is just a fucking subjugating insult. They are MEN, if any other category it would be subset of men. I am blindsided that Sturgeon is pursuing this.

VioletLemon · 22/12/2022 15:09

No, you wouldn't get accepted I'm afraid.
Do you have fluffy bunny ears, testicles and a tutu?

VioletLemon · 22/12/2022 15:07

Seems to be, hanging out in women's toilets brandishing a stash of sanitary ware to 'offer' up....... Obviously bunches, fluffy socks, giggles, spinny skirt.

If you don't have an Adams apple you're not a real woman though....

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 22/12/2022 15:00

MangyInseam · 21/12/2022 23:15

Practically I think it means presenting yourself with the basic language markers we use for women. So publicly using a name that is female, forms of address like Miss or Mrs, and female associated pronouns. Usually also more feminine clothing etc.

Of course if you dig down into this at all these are very superficial things. They are the accidents of womanhood, not the essence of it. They are, though, I suppose, the kinds of things you'd do if you were disguising yourself as a woman to escape the draft, or some other reason.

The problem with that, though, is that people find it very difficult not to see other people as the the sex they are , and to use the ‘ correct’ - or really incorrect -pronouns or forms of address. Hence misgendering ( soon to be a crime punishable by imprisonment, I believe).
The huge hands, the Adam’s apples and quite often now, the beard just gets in the way of the correct address.

TaraRhu · 22/12/2022 14:43

Short skirts, high heels, make up, shave legs, like pink, moan about men, nice nails..., could buy period products? That's about it isn't it? Change your name, done. You are a woman! Hurrah!

Reallyatthelimit · 22/12/2022 14:08

You’re not your!

Reallyatthelimit · 22/12/2022 14:08

It means your a man.

tootiredtobother · 22/12/2022 14:07

I came on to say toilet seat hovering too, which will become an absolute life skill when all loos are bloody UNISEX ffs

otherwise its the XX obvs

GameBoy · 22/12/2022 14:04

If it isn’t already, these examples need to be a thread on Twitter! It’s this sort of ridiculousness which sheds sunlight and peaks people…