Need cheering up

CyclingSam · 2022-12-20T01:41:05+00:00

Well, I can't say I know what JK Rowling feels like, but now I know what it's like to be smeared. I'm active on cycling forums. Most are of course heavily male (I'm a guy, too). A few days ago I decided to put some gender critical ideas in front of them. I knew they'd be skeptical, but I wasn't prepared for the sort of tactics you see in the Bunbury threads. More depressing, I was completely on my own. It finally ended last night with a lock on the thread and a public shaming, my motives called into question by a moderator. I'm rather depressed at the moment. Maybe someone can cheer me up by going over to the thread, picking out a comment or two by one of my antagonists, and giving them the FWR critical eye. The thread in question: https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=154250

Original poster

CyclingSam · 30/12/2022 16:28

I realise this forum intrigue is rather Byzantine and not of general interest. It's just another small front on which battles are being waged.

As for Chompsky, when he's not worrying us sick, he's a cheerer upper extraordinaire.

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Signalbox · 30/12/2022 14:35

CyclingSam · 30/12/2022 14:31

Good afternoon, vipers.

I will stop at nothing to spread the word that we aren't the radicals, including enlisting Chompsky, who shares the house with my wife and me.

The latest thread on the Cycling UK site concerning this affair is locked, the demolition job on me complete. Call it closure.

www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=5572.msg16309#msg16309

Cute name for a rabbit 😍

Original poster

CyclingSam · 30/12/2022 14:31

Good afternoon, vipers.

I will stop at nothing to spread the word that we aren't the radicals, including enlisting Chompsky, who shares the house with my wife and me.

The latest thread on the Cycling UK site concerning this affair is locked, the demolition job on me complete. Call it closure.

www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=5572.msg16309#msg16309

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BezMills · 27/12/2022 07:36

Heh! @CyclingSam

I love to ride my bicycles but I am not interested in racing, TT etc. Just find them a very pleasant way to get around, especially on car-free infrastructure (we are lucky to have some nice ex railway paths on the Isle of Wight)

Original poster

CyclingSam · 27/12/2022 03:54

The first screenshot of one of my posts has been tweeted. I almost feel honoured: twitter.com/OddSocks_84/status/1607496103401766912

I brought this up on the “Where should CTC / Cycling UK be going” FB group, where it was quickly deleted; so we know where they don’t want to go.

It’s all been an education. www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=5572.msg16295#msg16295

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BezMills · 26/12/2022 12:57

Dafuq? I must have skimmed over that. Yes @PainfulAnkles I agree. So much wrong, where to start?

PainfulAnkles · 26/12/2022 12:18

Over near the last ten years I’ve known a person who’s made the transition from defined as female to defined as male. He seems happier in himself and wasn’t a classic pretty woman - built like a Welsh miner. I also know several women who are in same sex relationships, they’re lovely people who for whatever reason don’t find joy with the opposite sex. My view is twofold: I want people to be happy, I’m sad that some decent bloke won’t be having one of these wonderful women as a partner … but I respect their choices.

Comment made by whoever on the thread.
This is the weirdest fucking shit I’ve read!
So, if woman is not ’pretty’, totally understandable to ’become a man’?

And women belong to men, and they should date men?
Also, what fucking ’joy from opposite sex’, when have men ever been a joy?

But hey! At least he respect other’s choices!!
Bet he pats himself on the back for being a good guy!

Jesus!!

BezMills · 26/12/2022 10:04

Fair play to you OP.

drspouse · 26/12/2022 09:45

Exactly, and you shouldn't tell anyone if you see it through work.
Interestingly I saw a case study where they were explaining how to set up a female only service by setting a genuine occupational requirement to be female and ditto to not have a GRC.

Signalbox · 25/12/2022 23:01

Thanks drspouse. So basically shouldn’t be done unless you need to lawfully discriminate (for sporting purposes for instance).

drspouse · 25/12/2022 19:04

*shouldn't be routinely done.

drspouse · 25/12/2022 19:02

(So, if a GRC or BC is genuinely needed, then it's possible to ask for it and be discreet. Perfectly legal. Just not something you do when e.g. processing a new employee at Sainsbury's).

drspouse · 25/12/2022 18:59

Not illegal. Just not something that should be routinely done. If "legal gender" is needed then the new birth certificate would be the correct one.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/servicescode_0.pdf

The disclosure issue is "in an official capacity" actually not as part of a job (so someone like a volunteer doing a DBS for Scouting would count, but when someone boasts about it on Twitter that doesn't).

Signalbox · 25/12/2022 13:52

drspouse · 25/12/2022 13:33

@Signalbox you can ask to see a birth certificate or GRC. You just can't disclose its contents if you saw it as part of your job.
So if you are paid to marshal a race and ask if someone has M or F on their original birth certificate you can't go and broadcast the result on Facebook but you can assign them to the right race on that basis.

A poster on another thread has said it’s unlawful to ask to see it. Do you know where the idea it is unlawful has come from or is it just made up trans activist law?

drspouse · 25/12/2022 13:33

@Signalbox you can ask to see a birth certificate or GRC. You just can't disclose its contents if you saw it as part of your job.
So if you are paid to marshal a race and ask if someone has M or F on their original birth certificate you can't go and broadcast the result on Facebook but you can assign them to the right race on that basis.

drspouse · 25/12/2022 13:27

I'm a cyclist and mum to two cyclists. DD has started the Rookie training at our usual club, DS has SEN and doesn't cope with groups so I take him on rides. I'm in a local women's cycling group but a man who identifies as a woman has joined and while I wouldn't care about going to a mixed group if it was mixed, the previous leader was very much a handmaiden and though she left in a huff the bloke leads a lot of rides and is also quite patronising, and the rides are also at really awkward times for a working mum (either during the working day, or weekend mornings when kids' sport happens).

I'm worried my DD may decide to compete but give up if faced with a boy. And even in a social group, the concerns of different social and biological groups are different.

Signalbox · 25/12/2022 13:09

Thelnebriati · 25/12/2022 12:09

''Sport - when discrimination is allowed in the provision of goods or services''

''If one sex is generally at a disadvantage compared to the other, it’s not unlawful to hold separate competitions for men and women.''
''The Equality Act also says it’s lawful to restrict the participation of transgender people from sporting competitions where physical strength, stamina or physique are important factors in deciding who wins.''

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services1/goods-and-services-what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/what-doesn-t-count-as-unlawful-discrimination-in-goods-and-services/sport-when-discrimination-is-allowed-in-the-provision-of-goods-or-services/

What I still can’t work out is if a person says their sex is female and all their identity documents say they are female and you are no longer allowed (apparently) to ask to see birth certificates or GRCs in any case, how in practical terms is a sporting organisation supposed to keep male trans people out of the female categories? The only way I can see this working (outside of genetic testing in elite sports) is being able to rely on transwomen having the integrity to be honest about their male biology and not attempt to access the women’s categories. And we know that increasingly this is an unrealistic expectation because many transwomen believe they are entitled to be in the women’s category. So in practice the single sex exceptions are not currently workable. This is why Labour say they support them because they know they’ve become meaningless.

Thelnebriati · 25/12/2022 12:11

Gender Recognition Act;
F1 19Sport
(1)A body responsible for regulating the participation of persons as competitors in an event or events involving a gender-affected sport may, if subsection (2) is satisfied, prohibit or restrict the participation as competitors in the event or events of persons whose gender has become the acquired gender under this Act.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/19

Thelnebriati · 25/12/2022 12:09

''Sport - when discrimination is allowed in the provision of goods or services''

''If one sex is generally at a disadvantage compared to the other, it’s not unlawful to hold separate competitions for men and women.''
''The Equality Act also says it’s lawful to restrict the participation of transgender people from sporting competitions where physical strength, stamina or physique are important factors in deciding who wins.''

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services1/goods-and-services-what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/what-doesn-t-count-as-unlawful-discrimination-in-goods-and-services/sport-when-discrimination-is-allowed-in-the-provision-of-goods-or-services/

Banoffeepie21 · 25/12/2022 08:34

The CyclingUK moderators need to educate themselves, I can’t believe they cited these as credible resources. It tells you all you need to know. Have they been under a stone this past year? I am horrified by that post.

“Resources and information about trans inclusion are available from:
mermaidsuk.org.uk/
www.stonewall.org.uk/“

Original poster

CyclingSam · 25/12/2022 07:58

Well well.
forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?p=1745641#p1745641

In general, excluding trans folks, refusing to accept their preferred gender, or promoting so called gender critical information is considered bigotry and will not be tolerated on the forum.

Most of the discussion on the thread is reasonable & robust and has therefore been left in place, but a few posts have been removed.

One of the posts that didn't make the cut. I guess they weren't interested in a discussion about what makes for respectful debate... amongst many other things. Should that link (or the entire post I'm quoting) go missing, there's a copy of it on my site.

Resources and information about trans inclusion are available from:

The usual suspects.

Me: The main issue is reconciling the demands of trans activists with the rights of women

Moderator: There is not any reconciliation needed. Women's rights are aligned with trans rights, with the exception of the minority who call themselves gender crititcal. Trans women have been using women's spaces for generations, and will continue to do so.

The arguments in use are the same as those that were used to oppose gay & lesbian rights, women's sufferage, and other issues of rights.

Looks like someone is clinging to #NoDebate.

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Original poster

CyclingSam · 21/12/2022 21:11

Sorry to be bumping my own thread - if I could edit posts, I would. May I direct your attention to this thread:

forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=154287

I haven't read it, and won't, but my wife has no such compunctions. First she started reading, then she started howling. There was no way around it: she had to tell me a little of what was being said.

Apparently I've been posting about this to get rich. To be completely honest, if there was a way to get rich posting on cycling forums about something I feel passionately about, I would do it in a heartbeat. Alas, there have been no offers.

I wrote something for The Guardian, years ago.

www.theguardian.com/technology/2006/mar/09/news.comment

It was just a Comment Is Free piece (now with a bad link, alas), not topical to this board, but somewhat pertinent as it was my first and only taste of the power of media. After it was printed I was invited to a discussion on a BBC radio show, and was even contacted by an agent who wondered if I might have a book in me. It was heady stuff, but soon enough my 15 seconds were over and I've been plugging away in blessed/cursed obscurity ever since.

So if there are any agents out there reading this, I would be pleased to pitch something to you. There are too many talented women writing about gender ideology for me to be able to break into that market, so I'd like to try my hand at something else: If you've seen The Handmaid's Tale (I'm currently working my way through it), you'll remember Offred and the commander playing Scrabble. I'd like to do a book about winning losing Scrabble strategies - what do you say?

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Original poster

CyclingSam · 21/12/2022 14:06

Aaaaand my wife just pointed out to me that most of the links in my previous longer post don't work. Not sure what happened there, but no worries, here's a duplicate of that post on my site:

www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=6324.0

in the event anyone is interested in following them.

@Signalbox
"He was threatened with being kicked out his organisation, him and another person were compared to being far right (even though the organisation is left). It was a very stressful fortnight."

I'm reminded of the infamous Guardian interview with Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, the end of which included an extract from her Reith lecture:

We now live in broad settled ideological tribes. We no longer need to have real discussions because our positions are already assumed, based on our tribal affiliation. Our tribes demand from us a devotion to orthodoxy and they abide not reason, but faith.

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Original poster

CyclingSam · 21/12/2022 10:37

Just to add, though the banning came as a surprise, I'd actually asked the moderator to delete my account after the thread was locked for the reason it was. I was just too disgusted to continue. I guess he figured it would be more of a lesson to me if he shot me than if I shot myself.

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Original poster

CyclingSam · 21/12/2022 10:33

Thanks MumsnetHQ for letting that post through. Our very ability to discuss this on forums was one of the themes of my thread, beautifully illustrated by its fate. I couldn't have planned it better if I'd tried.

This place has been an oasis of sanity for a few years for me now; I think I even introduced my wife to it (she hasn't been captured by social media nearly to the extent I have).

@Signalbox I've been a fan of Emma Hilton for the science. I frequently post about this on my blog, though the vast majority of the content is links with quoted material and reposts from Mumsnet (see this, for example). I'm very far off the beaten track, so have made efforts over the years to speak out where it can hopefully do some good. I've had posts deleted [exhibits A and B - the latter for even mentioning Mumsnet) and locked before. And this isn't my first banning. It's just the first time it really got to me.

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