Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Badenoch to meet Robison over GRR

90 replies

ResisterRex · 18/12/2022 10:25

Here:

https://www.mailplus.co.uk/scottish-edition/news/244821/uk-plea-to-snp-to-halt-gender-law

"THE UK Equalities Minister will use a dramatic eleventh-hour intervention ahead of the Scottish parliament’s gender reform vote to implore the SNP to delay the changes.

Kemi Badenoch will meet Shona Robison, an ally of Nicola Sturgeon and the person steering the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill through parliament, tomorrow – only 24 hours before final talks on the divisive law begin.

It is understood Ms Badenoch will call on the Scottish Government to explain how it has reached the conclusion that allowing people to self-identify as a different gender is the right path for Scotland, its people and the rest of the UK.

A Government source said: ‘Kemi wants to understand what their evidence is. It’s an attempt to urge them to take heed of warnings about the Bill, to rethink age limits and ensure there has been enough safeguarding.’"

And there is this on the support the SNP needs:

"This newspaper is aware of Nationalist rebels – who earlier this month staged the biggest rebellion in 15 years of SNP rule over the plans – rallying the support of opposition MSPs to help them defeat their own government this week. In particular, they are targeting Scottish Labour members who they claim will be the ‘kingmakers’ in deciding whether or not the gender reform Bill goes through.
One SNP insider last night told The Mail on Sunday: ‘We need their [MSPs’] support.’

Another said: ‘Those who stood up against the reforms have had significant support internally, and there is a recognition that some of those who are standing up for women and girls are doing so at great personal cost.’
Although they declined to say if more Nationalist MSPs were set to rebel, one source said: ‘I suspect there will be some colleagues who are increasingly anxious about their position.’ "

OP posts:
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 19/12/2022 09:39

Johann Lamont in the Times article:

“I also find it hard to believe anyone really thinks that it’s a good idea to have a convicted male sex offender in a women’s jail.”

it’s because those voting for the bill against their conscience value their own careers over the safety of women prisoners. They don’t care

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 19/12/2022 09:35

ResisterRex · 19/12/2022 06:14

This is very interesting. So she had previously shown caution about the bill and met with FWS, but is now rewriting history?

ResisterRex · 19/12/2022 08:37

Today's meeting reported in The Times:

Justify trans law reform, minister warns

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7a6e02b8-7f2a-11ed-bc2d-0c63022989a8?shareToken=cb9fa88ac34fb8a892e5656be6741ae8

OP posts:
Abccde · 19/12/2022 07:29

She's married to an SNP minister isn't she?

Not really an unbiased source.

JustSpeculation · 19/12/2022 07:22

Kezia Dugdale's article perfectly demonstrates the outcome of "no debate". After years of simply refusing to engage in debate, the pro self -ID lobby simply has no conception of what the counterarguments are. "No debate" has worked.

southbiscay · 19/12/2022 06:48

Shona's list of what living as a woman means includes being referred to by others as a woman. Shouldn't we check if those others actually believe what they are saying because odds on they are just being 'kind'. Or frightened of being hauled over the coals for misgendering.

It is all fantasy.

ResisterRex · 19/12/2022 06:14

FWS tweet on the Times/Dugdale piece:

twitter.com/forwomenscot/status/1604635557128290304?s=46&t=q7uZpSib658jH6-dHMq-uA

OP posts:
RhannionKPSS · 19/12/2022 01:09

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2022 21:27

www.scottishparliament.tv/

I can't make the rally on the 21st, but I will be emailing all of the MSPs again.

Thank you yet again Arabella.

Whereareyourshoes · 18/12/2022 22:33

Oh Kezia. Do you know what inflamed the debate?

‘No debate.’ Masked trans activists preventing women from meeting to discuss proposed changes in government legislation. People like Kezia simply refusing to listen to alternative opinions because they only want to do favours for their lovely trans pals.

Tragically for women and children in Scotland, it’s likely to get pushed through and I hope it costs every MSP who votes for this bill their seat at the next election. Allowing any sex offender to obtain a GRC and a false birth certificate? What kind of man or woman prioritises the feelings of sex offenders over the safety, privacy and dignity of women and children? Absolutely shameful.

Most of us know it’s not possible for people to actually change sex. No matter how much they want to, no matter how many of their friends and family lie to them, no matter how much plastic surgery they get, no matter the drugs they take, no matter the clothes they wear, no matter the false official documents they get.

Stop the lies, Kezia.

You can treat people with respect without lying to them.

And the colours are ours 💚🤍💜

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2022 22:30

I can't even say what I think of Kezia's article.

RhannionKPSS · 18/12/2022 21:41

Kezia is a bloody disgrace!!! What an appalling piece of writing that is.

TheBiologyStupid · 18/12/2022 21:41

Kezia still doesn't get it then...

BetsyM00 · 18/12/2022 21:41

I’d like anyone in government to explain how a male ‘lives as a woman’

Shona gave it a go. Last page of this document:
www.parliament.scot/-/media/files/committees/equalities-human-rights-and-civil-justice-committee/correspondence/2022/gender-recognition-reform-open-letter-to-msps-from-cabsecsjhlg-9-december-2022.pdf

Surprise, surprise, we are a walking gas bill again. Despite this definition being ruled unlawful in the Supreme court.

ResisterRex · 18/12/2022 21:34

Leaving this here without comment:

Kezia Dugdale: classic populism inflamed the gender debate

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2dc99e08-7ef9-11ed-bc2d-0c63022989a8?shareToken=501c79623c8238ed531a866924beb57d

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 18/12/2022 21:32

'McConnell warned: “There are really serious concerns about safe spaces for women, especially those facing and dealing with the trauma of abuse, violence, and rape.
“The ruling from the Court of Session changes the context for this act completely and, if implemented, we could now see an incentive for predatory male sex offenders to come to Scotland, identify as female, and have access to women’s hospital wards, rape crisis centres and prisons.”'

Fucking hell, that's really not holding back, is it? That's WHAT WEVE BEEN TRYING TAE TELL YEES.

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2022 21:30

Igneococcus · 18/12/2022 18:09

Jack McConnell, former first minister and Scottish labour leader has also commented, I hope he still carries some weight within Scottish labour.
Article here but I broke my sharetokens:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-trans-reforms-risk-attracting-sex-offenders-to-scotland-says-jack-mcconnell-7wwsl3739

Crikey.

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2022 21:27

www.scottishparliament.tv/

I can't make the rally on the 21st, but I will be emailing all of the MSPs again.

ResisterRex · 18/12/2022 19:58

I'd want Badenoch to go over the whole lot. Including this from the consultation:

"The Committee will not, as part of its scrutiny, address or explore issues which are outwith the scope of the Bill as outlined above. Submissions which contain offensive language, do not comply with GDPR requirements or are not relevant to the Committee’s scrutiny will not be published."

What were the GDPR requirements? How was anyone to know if they could point to publicly documented cases, to judgements? What is "offensive language"?

According to the Gunning principles, sufficient information must be provided (that question didn't seem to have definitions and GDPR is highly complex), and the decision maker needs to take the product of the consultation into account. How can they do that if information is screened out? That part of the consultation seemed to say that parts would be screened out. But because you couldn't know on what basis, it seems like 2 and 4 of Gunning might be relevant.

Gunning

  1. proposals are still at a formative stage
A final decision has not yet been made, or predetermined, by the decision makers
  1. there is sufficient information to give ‘intelligent consideration’
The information provided must relate to the consultation and must be available, accessible, and easily interpretable for consultees to provide an informed response
  1. there is adequate time for consideration and response
There must be sufficient opportunity for consultees to participate in the consultation. There is no set timeframe for consultation,1 despite the widely accepted twelve-week consultation period, as the length of time given for consultee to respond can vary depending on the subject and extent of impact of the consultation
  1. ‘conscientious consideration’ must be given to the consultation responses before a decision is made
Decision-makers should be able to provide evidence that they took consultation responses into account

You can find those principles here:

www.gov.scot/publications/planning-people/pages/5/

www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/The%20Gunning%20Principles.pdf

OP posts:
Whereareyourshoes · 18/12/2022 19:35

I would love to see this conversation between Badenoch and Robison as well.

More clarity around ‘how are you defining trans?’

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/no-means-no?r=ahiyi&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

Ramblingnamechanger · 18/12/2022 18:40

Done a response to the observer

BlackForestCake · 18/12/2022 18:38

I’d like this meeting between Badenoch and Robison to be televised live.

Whereareyourshoes · 18/12/2022 18:18

Yes it means pretend to be a member of the opposite sex for a few months then as a reward for your lies you can get a false birth certificate to confirm the lie.

Rowlingfan · 18/12/2022 18:16

If you look at The Observer piece posted upthread, it asks for response from readers in a 250 word letter to The Observer. Any vipers or dinosaurs got time to word a response?

HipTightOnions · 18/12/2022 18:13

happydappy2 · 18/12/2022 13:14

I’d like anyone in government to explain how a male ‘lives as a woman’

This is such a basic flaw in the whole argument that GRCs are needed.

It can only mean "pretends to be a woman", surely, but no one wants to say that.

Igneococcus · 18/12/2022 18:09

Jack McConnell, former first minister and Scottish labour leader has also commented, I hope he still carries some weight within Scottish labour.
Article here but I broke my sharetokens:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/snp-trans-reforms-risk-attracting-sex-offenders-to-scotland-says-jack-mcconnell-7wwsl3739