Adult Human Female: the film

I just watched the film. I think the title "Adult Human Female" is apt. The people interviewed described the issues clearly in a dry sort of way. However, I'm not sure who the film is aimed at. The left wing certainty bias shone through. There was a bizarre "not my Nigel" comment about how this was really a neoliberal right wing idea, when, to me, the right wing has held the line more successfully than the left. The lesbian and gay point of view featured prominently, but we heard little (nothing) from mothers. To be more relatable and convincing, this film sorely needed a Posie. I look forward to her film. We need them all.

What's a real shame is that there's a group of women who constantly attach KJK's name to words like monetised merched and cash in. As if she's doing it to buy shoes or something.

She reaches the women outside of the academy and left-wing politics far more effectively than academia ever can. It takes a lot of different approaches to reach a lot of different people. Let other women do what they do best instead of tediously nit-picking.

People stick up for her because the spite is so nasty that it demands a response.

There's no point, they don't want to hear it.

You're right, of course - KJK cashed in on the phrase in exactly the way KJK's fans are claiming the film did.

But her fans will find a way to justify KJK doing it as no problem at all, as KJK can do no wrong as far as they are concerned. It's not about principles any more, it's a cult of personality.

It's a real shame.

The choice of what to call the film was made by the film-makers, not the participants in the film. The film probably didn't even have a name when they were interviewed for it, and I doubt very much they were consulted on it.

This is a very good point.

Btw I had no idea my case was going to be discussed in the film until I saw it.

Well, no-one did refuse to appear in it because of the name so that sort of suggests that those wanting to make it some sort of issue to be fought over are speaking into the void somewhat.

It's not reclaiming anything to say it belongs to all of us. It was never taken away, nothing to reclaim.

Well actually yes, I can imagine at least one of the women who took part in the film saying that!

Anyway the 'reclaiming' suggestion was a genuine response to a point made by a previous poster and intended as a civil discussion. I do wish the film well and there are other things to talk about on this thread so I'm dropping out now.

How did I infer it? Well phrases such as, 'It belongs to us all' suggest to me that there's a desire to reclaim it. That's all and I'm not sure why the idea seems to have made you so indignant - it would be a perfectly rational thing to do from where I'm sitting.
But fair enough, in that case I will have to fall back once again on my view that it was a strange choice. given the efforts made by some of those women to distance themselves from JKJ.

No, I'm not suggesting that at all. How on earth did you infer that from what I've posted?

I'm saying that the phrase had political currency before KJK popularised, moneitarised and merchandised it. And that was why KJK chose it - because everyone knew what it meant.

It belongs to us all.

I don't see it as an argument about intellectual property (if that's the correct phrase). I just think, as I've already said, that it was an odd choice of title given its recent connection with KJK, and given the extent to which some of those women have made to disassociate themselves from her.

But if you're suggesting (and I'm not sure whether you are?) that the title was part of a deliberate strategy to 'reclaim' the phrase, then that actually makes more sense to me, although it also blows apart any idea that it was a coincidence.

It had the deeper political meaning before KJK merched it.

That's why it has been such a successful campaign - everyone knew what it meant and why the phrase was being used because it already had political currency.

Of course people have been using the phrase for years, it's the dictionary definition of woman.

But ever since the Liverpool billboard it's taken on a deeper political meaning. It's become part of the fight back against gender ideology. KJK's relentless promotion of it has made it a slogan that means not-a-transwoman. The t-shirts are seen at every feminist gathering (even in this film!) And it has become understood for its deeper meaning because it's been pushed out there as a response to the faux confusion about what a woman is.

It's the other way round. Women had been using 'adult human female' since at least 2004 when the GRC came in. Maria MC used it after being assaulted at Speaker's Corner in 2017 as did Helen Steel in her great speech at the first WPUK meeting later that year.

KJK was able to merch and moneitarise the term because the work of a lot of other women made it obvious why she used it.

Like others I thought the special effects were stupid and distracting.

Loved hearing the voices of and seeing the many women I've been reading for years. Lucy Masoud was my stand out favourite of the bunch.

I do think it's preaching to the converted though. For example JCJ's brief mention of 'Sarah'. No context given, or illustration of the outrageous treatment Sarah has received since her case became public, or the legal proceedings. Savage editing I imagine, but more of that story and less sound effects and squirrels would have been a more useful illustration of the treatment of women in the face of gender ideology.

I also think KJK should at least have been mentioned in the credits as they used footage from her events. Also you would have to be an idiot to claim that title won't immediately bring KJK to mind, but that's the power of her message and skill at promotion and their inability to acknowledge her contribution to the cause.

Watched it last night. Why shagging squirrels? Lost me on that bit and the music. I digest.
Partner watched it with me and peaked. Everything I had told him he took with a pinch of salt. He was gob smacked especially the lady who was banned from a lesbian dating site for only wanting females.
Partner sat there and said but lesbians don't have a penis? Then asked if that made him a lesbian because he likes , you know natal females. Had to explain that one as well.
He now understands that it's heterosexual men with a fetish, that hard drives need checking and why don't people think it's suspicious that adults are encouraging children to take medications that they use on rapists for chemical castration. Why would adults want other adults to resemble children when their older?
He's now fallen down an internet rabbit hole.

Yeah, the special effects were a it random and a friend of mind who hasn't been involved in these discussions commented that it would have been helpful for different sections/topics to be signalled.

The consequence of two person, low budget film company who made it because they believe in its message.

But it was great to watch the London premiere in Conway Hall and hear the excellent panel discussion of Lucy Masoud, Joan Smith and Karen Ingala-Smith chaired by Shona D.

Thanks to WPUK as ever for amplifying lots of different women's voices.

Seen it now. Disappointed in various ways.

Hate the loud music, shagging squirrels, all the video clips. Waste of time, unnecessary and annoying.

Love the talking head BUT they should have presented more people instead of multiple clips of the same tiny group of people.

Glad to see Aja was included though.

OhMammaMia - "She didn’t create it though. If we want to be honest WPUK started it…"

I hardly dare ask but . . . just to clarify - do you mean the film??

Fwiw I agree with @Floisme :
”I hope I can applaud this film and wish it a wide viewing, while still thinking that the title, given the lengths some of the women involved with it have gone to in order to distance themselves from anything to do with KJK, was a rather odd choice.”

Yes. Jaw-dropping, eye-popping, through the looking glass, Grade A mind-fuckery.

Despite that, and that annoyingly amateurish "special effects", I still want people to watch it!

Yes the interviews were great but the sound effects and random shots pretty amateur-ish unfortunately. It’s a shame lots of big names (Kathleen Stock, Maya Forstater, Alison Bailey, Helen Joyce et al) weren’t interviewed and I’m only thanks to this thread finding out about the seeming issues with KJK which is a shame. Really enjoyed the interviews themselves though and particularly Lucy Masoud. Pedantic point but you say adult female deer, adult female elephant, surely it should be adult female human?! Thanks for the link regardless!

I've heard its OJ and Cashman

Aha!

was I the only one who kept rewinding the bleeped-out bit where Simon Edge names the people he hopes will be brought to account, to try and work out who he refers to?!)

I think the names are Peter Tatchel and Owen Jones, in that order.

She didn’t create it though. If we want to be honest WPUK started it…

And this “grow up” patronising bullshit is getting tired.

To all those trying to silence @IwantToRetire , please make sure you do the same when it’s Posie who is being slagged off. Thanks

Fwiw I agree with @Floisme :
” I hope I can applaud this film and wish it a wide viewing, while still thinking that the title, given the lengths some of the women involved with it have gone to in order to distance themselves from anything to do with KJK, was a rather odd choice.”

“Keep up the struggle, comrades! Preferably against each other!” As I heard a rightwinger chortle while listening to lefties arguing.

There have always been disputes inside the feminist movement, as undoubtedly in every political movement in the world. But I remember that rightwinger’s glee, seeing very clearly how we squander our energy.