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Original poster

How feminists have let down Muslim women and girls

214 replies

beastlyslumber · 15/12/2022 09:59

This is a brilliant conversation with Yasmine Mohammed, talking about how liberal feminism has betrayed women and girls, what the wearing of hijab really means for girls, how women are being enslaved and tortured by Sharia law. And why feminists need to start caring.

open.spotify.com/episode/4yNPedvPGE2lZ4uPtYViot

That's the spotify link. I'll link it on apple music as well: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e208-yasmine-mohammed-discusses-how-western-liberals/id1437447846?i=1000587384528

Hopefully one of those links will work for you!

Yasmine Mohammed, author of Unveiled: How Western Liberals Empower Radical Islam , shares her story of growing up in a fundamentalist Islamic home in Canada. At 13, when she tried to report the abuse she suffered at the hands of her step-father, she was told by a judge “you come from a different culture, and that’s how your family chooses to discipline you, so we just have to accept that.”

And here lies the inherent contradiction in the way in which the West views fundamentalist Islam versus other fundamentalist religions, and turns a blind eye to the abuse and suffering of millions of girls and women. She and Bridget discuss how alienating that is, the message those girls receive is “we don’t care about you, you are ‘other.'”

They cover the escalation of rape culture, sexual harassment, the problems with celebrating the hijab, the indoctrination of attitudes towards girls and women in Muslim culture, and being called Islamophobic for criticizing a tool and system of oppression. They bond over shared traumatic experiences and discuss their belief that if you can use your own trauma to help others, it has not happened in vain. If you only ever listen to one episode of Walk-Ins Welcome, this is the episode.

OP posts:
flashbac · 15/12/2022 18:12

MissPollysFitDolly · 15/12/2022 11:48

No need for that tone, nobody has been called stupid. Besides which the person speaking, Yasmine Mohammed, is muslim.

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So what? Just because she's a Muslim she's an expert on what Muslim women need?

Fladdermus · 15/12/2022 18:09

I learnt recently that women who wear hijabs are not all muslims or from muslim countries. I met a group a women a few months back who I assumed were muslim because they wore hijabs but recently found out that they are Catholics from a Christian African country and it's the norm there for women to wear hijabs too.

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 15/12/2022 18:06

But no one has said it's all Muslims. And no one has said that dodgy practices like this are unique to Islam. Did you listen to the discussion, Mangy?

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Original poster
beastlyslumber · 15/12/2022 18:04

I think anyone who puts their infant and young girls into hijab is fundamentalist. After listening to this discussion I think it's really, really wrong.

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MangyInseam · 15/12/2022 17:30

I don't care id people call me a racist, I think they subscribe to a deeply racist ideology themselves.

But I do have real doubts that it is either fair, reasonable, or a good idea, to speak as if all Muslim women who wear a hijab, or have some other standard Islamic beliefs, are from "fundamentalist" backgrounds, or are being oppressed by fundamentalism.

I'd also point out that the pusing down of adult dress practices and conventions on children, and especially girl children, has been going on in many western nations. Partly because of a strong awareness of children being sexualized. For example it used to be common when I was a child for babies, toddler, and even somewhat older children, to go naked, or wear underpants at the beach, or for girls to not wear a top at the beach. Similarly children often changed in the open. The idea was that as pre-sexual beings there was no reason to cover in the way adults do.

The idea that children can be subject to sexualizing forces, and need protection, isn't unique to Islam.

MsRosley · 15/12/2022 17:17

beastlyslumber · 15/12/2022 12:06

We need to, we have always needed to, stand in solidarity with women across the globe in fighting for our rights. We cannot abandon Muslim women and girls under the guise of religious tolerance and liberalism.

This is my feeling, too. We can't be scared of being called names. There are women like Maryam Namazie, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Sarah Haider, Yasmine Mohammed who have been talking about this for years and begging feminists to listen. These women are in fear for their lives - in no doubt that speaking against Islam makes them targets. For too long we've just abandoned them to their fate because we don't want to become targets ourselves. Understandable, but not acceptable.

Cannot agree with this more.

nilsmousehammer · 15/12/2022 13:49

We cannot abandon Muslim women and girls under the guise of religious tolerance and liberalism.

In spades. This whole 'you are other and I don't care about you' is extended too to women with Autism, with disabilities, with trauma, with abuse, with other faiths and cultures, basically any woman who doesn't fit in to the personal politics and agenda.

I don't care if some women in those groups are fine and progressive and have no problems, because some do. And it's my responsibility as a woman to care about those women, and to ensure they have the same access and inclusion and voice and services as every male does.

FOJN · 15/12/2022 13:26

Emmmie · 15/12/2022 11:35

I agree we should be telling Muslim women what hijab REALLY means and how oppresed they REALLY are by their religion. I mean let's educate poor feeble minded women, they just don't see how stupid they are being.

Many of the women in the Islamic Republic of Iran would seem to agree with Jasmine. They are being killed, assaulted and jailed in their fight for freedom and equality and removing the hijab seems to be quite a potent symbol of their defiance.

Women, and more specifically feminists, have many conversations about whether our life choices are made freely or are informed by social, political, religious and economic pressures. This particular conversation just happens to be about the hijab and is lead by a Muslim woman. There will be a range of views whatever the subject under discussion.

EndlessTea · 15/12/2022 12:40

NonnyMouse1337 · 15/12/2022 12:06

The true nature of any ideology is in how it treats its dissidents, and not necessarily those that comply with its rules and regulations.

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This is so important and so true. Sage words indeed. I was thinking just yesterday about how you experience a completely different journey through your day if you comply with patriarchal gender norms or if you don’t. I find that by being averse to wearing make up, dresses, etc, I am definitely treated with mistrust. My brother once said words to the effect that if I made the effort, more doors would open up to me.

When, in the (long ago) past I would do the make up, skirts, curled my hair, or whatever, I would get a very different response from others - everyone would be friendlier and warmer. I just can’t stand doing it, so I live with being treated with mistrust and banging on closed doors 😂. I know this is an odd comparison, since it is much more subtle than the topic of this thread.

Anyway, I want to quote you again:

The true nature of any ideology is in how it treats its dissidents, and not necessarily those that comply with its rules and regulations.

Itsbiasedhere · 15/12/2022 12:20

I agree. That podcast is powerful stuff. But people on here will shout you down as racist like they do on the other threads on here.

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 15/12/2022 12:18

senua · 15/12/2022 12:12

They cover the escalation of rape culture, sexual harassment, the problems with celebrating the hijab, the indoctrination of attitudes towards girls and women in Muslim culture

For too long we've just abandoned them to their fate
Why are you blaming women for men's actions?

I'm not.

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Original poster
beastlyslumber · 15/12/2022 12:17

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/12/2022 12:13

A great doco if you can find it is "Me and the Mosque". It's Canadian and really insightful.

Thanks - I'll have a look.

Thanks also to the pp who posted the Sarah Haider video. There are some good resources around.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/12/2022 12:13

A great doco if you can find it is "Me and the Mosque". It's Canadian and really insightful.

senua · 15/12/2022 12:12

They cover the escalation of rape culture, sexual harassment, the problems with celebrating the hijab, the indoctrination of attitudes towards girls and women in Muslim culture

For too long we've just abandoned them to their fate
Why are you blaming women for men's actions?

NonnyMouse1337 · 15/12/2022 12:12

Thanks for sharing the podcast. I shall have a listen.

There's a good video by Sarah Haider too. I found it quite balanced.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/12/2022 12:11

Happy to listen but it will be one more voice among many over many years to me. I have women friends who describe themselves as oppressed by Islam and I stand by them too. I have others who are not but who are spat at by white male thugs for wearing the hijab and I stand by them too.

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 15/12/2022 12:11

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/12/2022 12:09

This isn't Islamophobia. Please listen to what Yasmine Mohammed is actually saying.

FFS. I never said it was. I said that I speak out against it. And my hijab-wearing friends are often front-and-centre of it.

Ah, apologies. I thought you were insinuating that it was somehow Islamophobic to post this or to criticise Islam. I'm being a bit sensitive, perhaps.

Anyway, I hope you'll listen and share your thoughts when you've done so.

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Original poster
beastlyslumber · 15/12/2022 12:09

Have you listened to the podcast @YetAnotherSpartacus? I'd be interested to know specifically what you agree and disagree with in what YM says. It's quite long, so take your time.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/12/2022 12:09

This isn't Islamophobia. Please listen to what Yasmine Mohammed is actually saying.

FFS. I never said it was. I said that I speak out against it. And my hijab-wearing friends are often front-and-centre of it.

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 15/12/2022 12:07

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/12/2022 12:01

My take on this (after many years of activism and being friends with individuals from Islamic cultures) is that I'm prepared to walk alongside Islamic women and advocate for them/with them when I can but this includes advocating against Islamaphobia, for women who wear the hijab and for those who don't. It's messy.

This isn't Islamophobia. Please listen to what Yasmine Mohammed is actually saying.

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Original poster
beastlyslumber · 15/12/2022 12:06

We need to, we have always needed to, stand in solidarity with women across the globe in fighting for our rights. We cannot abandon Muslim women and girls under the guise of religious tolerance and liberalism.

This is my feeling, too. We can't be scared of being called names. There are women like Maryam Namazie, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Sarah Haider, Yasmine Mohammed who have been talking about this for years and begging feminists to listen. These women are in fear for their lives - in no doubt that speaking against Islam makes them targets. For too long we've just abandoned them to their fate because we don't want to become targets ourselves. Understandable, but not acceptable.

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NonnyMouse1337 · 15/12/2022 12:06

Emmmie · 15/12/2022 11:35

I agree we should be telling Muslim women what hijab REALLY means and how oppresed they REALLY are by their religion. I mean let's educate poor feeble minded women, they just don't see how stupid they are being.

The true nature of any ideology is in how it treats its dissidents, and not necessarily those that comply with its rules and regulations.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/12/2022 12:05

For example there's this.

religionandpolitics.org/2022/11/16/a-mosque-of-her-own/

A very different view!

Original poster
beastlyslumber · 15/12/2022 12:01

If you're not prepared to listen to the discussion @Emmmie then you don't know what you're talking about.

Either listen to the conversation and then make your contributions, or don't listen and don't contribute. Your choice.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/12/2022 12:01

My take on this (after many years of activism and being friends with individuals from Islamic cultures) is that I'm prepared to walk alongside Islamic women and advocate for them/with them when I can but this includes advocating against Islamaphobia, for women who wear the hijab and for those who don't. It's messy.