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Original poster

Disc Golf (?) has banned transgender women from the female division

37 replies

ZeldaFighter · 15/12/2022 09:30

This is the article that piqued my interest in September:

quillette.com/2022/09/28/is-this-the-lia-thomas-of-disc-golf/

I've been keeping an eye on it but this has happened:

www.outkick.com/professional-disc-golf-effectively-bans-transgender-players-from-competing-in-womens-division/

For the record, I feel for the transgender women involved. But the clue is in the words - they chose to change their gender. Sport is segregated by physical sex, not gender.

OP posts:
Original poster
ZeldaFighter · 15/12/2022 11:41

Helleofabore · 15/12/2022 10:31

You are very kind zelda.

Do you really think that by now they have not read the science because they have seen the discussion online?

They might be telling themselves that it is 'just following the rules' but these are supposedly people with enough intelligence to be able to make the considered decision to become lifelong medical patients.

I tend to think it is infantilising them to say they don't know about it now. Pre-Hubbard and Thomas, maybe. But Post- Hubbard and Thomas, that would be because they have chosen to remain ignorant, IMO.

Either, good for Disc Golf to make this stand.

Thank you Helleofabore!

And that really is an excellent point! I'm a middle-aged housewife but I have found varying different perspectives and different sources of information to read - and I'm not an athlete immersed in these worlds. To not have seen these discussions or read the information is quite impressive!

But I suspect we may both be right - the athletes know all this stuff BUT "The mental and emotional changes actually happened very quickly," said [Lia] Thomas. "I was feeling a lot better mentally. I was less depressed."
She continued, "And I lost muscle mass and I became a lot weaker and a lot, a lot slower in the water."

They still want to believe that they are now women and not men and being slower and weaker "proves" it to them. They therefore believe it's completely fair to race in the women's competition. Perhaps they think the science doesn't apply to them because they feel and are less strong and fast.

"In response to critics who say Thomas transitioned in order to win more swimming medals, she reiterated that is not the case.
"Trans people don't transition for athletics," she said. "We transition to be happy and authentic and our true selves. Transitioning to get an advantage is not something that ever factors into our decisions.""

OP posts:
OmiOmy · 15/12/2022 10:42

I disagree Zelda. All these TW athletes and sportsmen care about is winning. No matter what. If they are mediocre in male category (Hubbard, Thomas), transitioning, then competing with females takes them straight to the top. They know exactly what they are doing. They can hide behind inclusivity but it's all smoke and mirrors because they want to win, even if it's cheating by being in the female category.

Helleofabore · 15/12/2022 10:34

either way

Helleofabore · 15/12/2022 10:31

You are very kind zelda.

Do you really think that by now they have not read the science because they have seen the discussion online?

They might be telling themselves that it is 'just following the rules' but these are supposedly people with enough intelligence to be able to make the considered decision to become lifelong medical patients.

I tend to think it is infantilising them to say they don't know about it now. Pre-Hubbard and Thomas, maybe. But Post- Hubbard and Thomas, that would be because they have chosen to remain ignorant, IMO.

Either, good for Disc Golf to make this stand.

DialSquare · 15/12/2022 10:28

"I don't think there's a single transgender athlete who is trying to cheat"

I disagree with this. I think there has been a few mediocre athletes that have worked out that transitioning shoots you up the winning chart.

PaterPower · 15/12/2022 10:24

Grip strength, throwing distances achieved, average height etc etc - there are many advantages that the average man has over the average woman in disc golf (and javelin, discus, shot putt etc).

The man they reference in the article was playing for three years and is, reportedly, not particularly good in terms of his form.

He beat the reigning top female professional (16 years experience and acknowledged as the best female player by some margin) in 5 straight tournaments.

They play for money. Not a lot of money, compared to other pro sports, but enough to be able to pay the bills. By competing, he took money out of the pocket of every female player who ranked behind him.

Such a stunning and brave individual.

Original poster
ZeldaFighter · 15/12/2022 10:18

PriOn1 · 15/12/2022 09:43

For the record, I feel for the transgender women involved

You feel sorry for someone who used a loophole in the rules to win substantial sums of money, extending to thousands of dollars, that should have been won by female competitors?

Why?

I feel sorry for them because in their own mind, they're doing nothing wrong, abiding by the current rules and being the person they want to be. I don't think there's a single transgender athlete who is trying to cheat - I think they've followed the logic of a foolish ideology and just can't see the bigger picture and the harm they're causing. Bear in mind that I doubt anyone will ever say anything to them directly (despite the survey saying 80% of women said they shouldn't play in the women's division) and anyone who does say anything is branded a bigot and a transphobe. I really think they don't see it and they then consider themselves a targeted victim. I feel sorry for them thinking that way - I don't really want anyone to suffer.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 15/12/2022 09:53

No Glacinda there is a female category.

And yes, it is effectively frisbee target shooting.

Still, there is prize money set aside for women. And there will be male advantages in the physiological mechanical side of the sport.

GlacindaTheTroll · 15/12/2022 09:51

Disc golf is a frisbee target shooting game.

Nothing to do with actual golf

And I'm mildly surprised this has come up as I thought it was a completely mixed sport in the first place

Helleofabore · 15/12/2022 09:47

Yeah. I don’t feel sympathy for this male. This individual knew exactly what they were doing.

I don’t think any male who respects women and girls would now be competing in female competitions because there has been so much discussion about it. Just because the rules allow it, doesn’t mean a male ‘has’ to compete in the female category.

PriOn1 · 15/12/2022 09:43

For the record, I feel for the transgender women involved

You feel sorry for someone who used a loophole in the rules to win substantial sums of money, extending to thousands of dollars, that should have been won by female competitors?

Why?

Helleofabore · 15/12/2022 09:34

Thanks Zelda. That is good news.

I have been watching the progress of this male competitor. That they have announced they are ‘fighting’ the decision will bring more and more sunlight.

Bring it on!

People will see the male entitlement very clearly.

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