pronoun advice

I've made this suggestion before, but if you are really in a position where you don't want to (or can't afford to) rock the boat, just put "Ms." in the column asking for pronouns; this should shut them up.

I work in a university and just ignore it. I find that I just say nothing, give no pronouns and don’t even refer to it, don’t mention it Nd just carry on like it’s not DP life say ten years ago, that no-one brings it up.

I have a few students and colleagues- mainly younger - that do it, but I find the majority of students and academics don’t and they don’t really mention it. Oddly enough the staff/admin staff are much more policing about pronouns than either students or staff — I suspect they’ve been “trained”.

So just don’t mention it; and I bet no-one will mention it back. I studiously avoid the subject and change the topic of anyone gets going on gender ideology (or suddenly remember a meeting I really must be at…)

‘I don’t try to dictate how other people talk about me because that’s weird.’

I really like this phrase from Velvetbee.

I am finding it strange these days that many young academic colleagues are using 'they' in emails, etc to refer to people they've known for ages (including me) with very obvious and consistent sex markers but who haven't shouted "their pronouns". Brainwashed, imo.

Can you respond "oh, do you use gender-identity-based pronouns or sex-based ones? "

If they explicitly want GI-based pronouns then you could be honest and say you're not sure you have one, so feel free to use whatever you like etc.

I work in the same sector and this always seems to be on the horizon somehow. I would just say, "I don't feel comfortable doing that." What is it they say? Never apologise, never explain.

I have barely come across gender ideology in real life though, and I am a mid 40s woman in a progressive work place and I talk lots to all sorts of people. If not for this message board I could almost believe it was something I dreamt once. All very odd

I'm the same but in my experience it's prevalent in children's social work and mental health and utterly dominant in politics and universities. Even up here in the north where you don't come across it in any other situation.

It's almost as if some organisations have specifically targeted training in those sectors.

@BacktoSlack , I love those responses and may use them myself!

My pronouns are I and My.
You can refer to me as you think appropriate and accurate

I have however shared in a few conversations, including in conversations with pronoun sharers, that I am concerned about announcing to all that I'm female in my email signature and inviting people to discriminate against me
I can see no benefit, only downside, so I'm not inclined to add them. No-one seemed upset or inclined to argue me into thinking differently. They just nodded and grunted and we moved on

I haven't been asked to declare pronouns yet but the answer I've prepared is : I don't have any preferred pronouns, feel free to use any you want.
If pushed I'll say I don't know what my gender is, I find it all a bit hard to fathom, and I've done various quizzes and they come up with different answers so I'm not sure what to suggest.
If really pushed I'll probably admit I'm not convinced by gender ideology as I definitely don't identify as a woman, bit I'm clearly female, so I think it's a belief system which isn't really for me.

I have barely come across gender ideology in real life though, and I am a mid 40s woman in a progressive work place and I talk lots to all sorts of people. If not for this message board I could almost believe it was something I dreamt once. All very odd

If you identify as female, why don't you want to make that clear?

Your sex isn't something you identify as. It's something you are. And it already is clear. It's funny how through the whole of human history up until a few years back, nobody had any need to 'make that clear'. I'm 51. I've never met anyone whose sex I didn't immediately know, and am not aware of anyone having not immediately known mine. And in professional, non-face-to-face situations, it has been proved beneficial for women not to make their sex clear.

I see the misogynistic monitors are out in force.

For anyone wondering about my deletions, I used a word which is a perfectly accurate descriptor of gender ideology. The misogynistic monitors know it and we know it. It's so accurate that it's a bit of a touchy subject with them.

I won't be cowed into using for others or being forced to refer to myself through compelled speech.

I've lost patience now. My answer is no.

I am called Alice and when speaking to me the pronouns we use are I, me or you.
🙂

Sorry, above post is in reply to this.

Forgive my scepticism that you genuinely don't understand but explaining the problems with thinking you have your own 'personal pronouns' is a very large proportion of the content of FWR.

Read any 3 threads and I'm sure you'll find it explained in detail.

Briefly: it's like telling an atheist they must start a conversation with their favourite version of the Lord's Prayer and then being annoyed they refuse.

Two reasons:
1). I don't have preferred pronouns. I really don't give a shiny crap how you refer to me in the 3rd person as I am generally not present.
2). I don't identify as female. My sex is female and I think gender is a tool of oppression used by the patriarchy to the detriment of everyone, but particularly females.

OP - what is your mentee studying? In my experience (academic) gender ideology is mainly a thing in the humanities in our university. I am actually shocked and horrified hearing stories from colleagues in humanities. Colleagues in the more practical business (e.g. accountancy and information systems) and science (e.g. physics and chemistry oriented) areas, engineering and medicine have no issues. There is a bit but not as bad as humanities in less practical business and science subjects. Law is also a bit of a mixed bag. Health care (e.g. nursing, OT etc) is also a bit of a mixed bag.

I don’t need to make it clear, personally. One look and you would know , one phone call and my voice would ‘identify’ me. The people who need to identify, and to have other people validate them …..they can go around declaring (although frankly it’s unnecessary in most cases)

@ginslinger
Good luck, however you decide to play it!

@JellySaurus
I know why you suggested that course of action. I am saying that any reference to the YP, or any use of the language of TRAs/MRAs, even if we think we are being sarcastic or turning the tables in some way, pulls the words or concepts involved further into the mainstream, legitimises them and warps our understanding of reality. We end up training our brains to accept them. That's why the TRAs are so authoritarian about language - it can change the way we think.

'Pronouns - I don't care what you call me'.

I also bridle at the implication in your post that abandoning millennia of accepted English grammar usage to stroke the egos of a tiny minority of people is just oh-so-normal and not an imposition in any way. No.

I've been thinking about this recently as it's bound to come up at some point.

I think my response will. be, "While I appreciate that all people have to be respected I don't believe that all ideas do. ". If asked to elaborate I would express my concerns for the company requiring all staff to do this in terms of the equality act.