Cambridge dictionary drops new definition of the word ‘woman’

Whatever ones views on lexicography, if the word woman is to have a second, newer meaning which is not compatible with the first, and given that the word Woman has been used to define specific rights and protections that predate the new meaning, I'm sure everyone, whatever meaning they may personally prefer, would agree it's appropriate to revisit those rights and protections to make it clear the group who is entitled to use them is the group defined by the original meaning of the word.

After all, no one would think it ok to destroy the protections and rights of a marginalised group simply due to a change in language, surely?

"*A trans woman is a woman who..."

By this definition, trans women are subset of women. I am glad you have no issue with that. It's quite refreshing on this site*

Unfortunately it's not refreshing to have words put in my mouth. I said nothing of the sort. Trans women are a subset of men.

Surely transwo man is more accurate if you want two words? I would imagine one new whole word would sit more comfortably with those who are trans.

*"A trans woman is a woman who..."

By this definition, trans women are subset of women. I am glad you have no issue with that. It's quite refreshing on this site.*

Hence I always use transwoman, a noun, completely separate from the definition of women. I can recommend all women to do that. Just drop the space, spaces aren't important anyway...

@DadJoke simplistic yes. Also disingenuous.

"A trans woman is a woman who..."

By this definition, trans women are subset of women. I am glad you have no issue with that. It's quite refreshing on this site.

I have much less of a problem with this then I do the expression ‘cervix haver’ if I had cancer and someone called me that I think I’d lose my shit.

It's a simple analogy. Just because you don't like how a word is used, doesn't mean the word isn't used that way - the dictionary doesn't care. It's simply how many people use the word.

I don't doubt for a moment that your dislike of this definition of woman is a thousand times greater than mine for less and fewer, but that's not the point I was making.

Trans woman is fine. Nobody is arguing against that. Trans is key here.

I can't fathom how this can be simplistically compared to "lesser" and "fewer".

None of this is particularly new. It's been implicit in the defintion of woman for a while, based on the definition of trans woman.

Mirriam-Webster: a transgender woman : a woman who was identified as male at birth

Collins: a transgender or transsexual woman

Iit doesn't matter whether most or just a significant minority use this new defintion, the usage has been measured and noted by lexicographers, and it's sufficiently prevelant in the data that the new definition has been added. I am unsure why "how dictionaries work" is remotely contraversial.

I don't like certain changes of usage (less"to mean fewer for example), but that doesn't mean the dictionary is "wrong." It's like blaming the thermometer for the temperature.

It is true that I don't think 'most' people call a male a woman. However, if we wanted to get specific, it 'might' be 'most' of the people that dadjoke interacts with.

But it is an error to try to assert that niche selection to the entire UK population. And even more so, to the world's population.

So, perhaps dadjoke is just aiming for saying it enough times that they might convince someone who is already using the word for any male who claims it that 'most' are doing it, so that someone is comforted in thinking everyone else in doing it. When it is not true.

Not sure how many polls of the UK population it will take though for posters to stop posting that fuckwittery falsehood.

I've never met anyone who does, those of my friends who are twaw refer to their transwoman daughter or friend as transwomen

And in general conversation at the hairdressers for example they referred to the transwoman delivery driver as he/him all the way.

That's spot on

Judging by the use of English in the definition, Universities are waiving through students who are not achieving the standards degrees used to demand.

Can we please stick with the usual definition of 'drop' as in to omit or leave out, rather than using the newly minted Netflix definition which seems to mean release, bring out?

Excellent.

We know anyway that DadJoke thinks beans will car on the abstract dust under, don't we? Which is a right-wing dog-whistle.

@DadJoke ... 'They are compiled by analysing a large corpus of English texts (over 2 billion words in total) taken from all areas of writing and publishing, which allows us to see exactly how language is used. We regularly update our dictionary to reflect changes in how English is used, based on analysis of data from this corpus."

The problem with the current situation around the use of the word woman is that many written sources are being forced, by what we believe to be a small but powerful minority, to erase the word woman when it is used to mean adult human female. Writers are 'encouraged' be 'inclusive' and their works are edited, gender critical writers lose their contracts, health organisations are encouraged to use different words, print articles are censored.

The evidence on which they are basing this change is under immense pressure. Even articles that were searchable a few months ago, are no longer available on line.

Many people, probably most, refer to trans women as women

Sorry, love, but no. They really don't.

No Dad

I'm sorry if you have been lead to believe that most people's use of the word "woman" for trans women means they actually consider trans women to be women.

Most people consider the use of "woman" and female pronouns for trans women to be an honorific akin to the use of "honourable" used to address MPs in Parliament. It's a recognition of their status but not in any way intended to be or expected to be understood as a statement of fact.

Most people would, in fact, be aghast that this act of kind politeness to trans women is being weaponised to demand that trans women should have access to any and all women-only resources simply on the strength of this entirely separate use of the same word.

Serendipitously, while idly trawling back through xkcd cartoons I found this ...

xkcd.com/1860/

...make of that what you will...

I think so Errol. 'Commonly understood' and 'maybe most'.

I think 'maybe most' might be inspired by wishful thinking though.

This seems apposite.

Here is that new Edinburgh edition of what female means, just in case people are not aware of the latest push to claim female as meaning male. It has been going on for a while, but this is just a reminder.

twitter.com/DalgetySusan/status/1603099110810128384?s=20&t=-nws6Lx-6T7ilJEnluBrXA