Sexual choking is now so common that many young people don’t think it even requires consent. That’s a problem

This is terrifying. No wonder so many girls and young women are noping out of being “women”. If I thought that’s what would happen during sex - or that I’d be slapped or spat on I’d nope the fuck out too.

I remember after my mum telling me about the facts of life, she said that sex should be fun. I was horrified at the time, but I wish all young people (and older people) would know that sex is meant to be fun for everyone involved. If they are not enthusiastically consenting you’re not doing it right and you need to stop immediately.

Is a kink still kinky enough to satisfy those who get a thrill from taboo-breaking if it's normalised (let alone taught in schools)? Aren't they likely to 'need' to push the boundaries further to get their kicks?

xkcd.com/468/

Sexually incontinent men see sex as an overwhelming right and create a climate where promoting boundaries and the importance of informed consent is seen as "problematic". They characterise those pushing safety and safeguarding as prudes and pearl clutchers with kink shaming being a "sin".
Regrettably there are too many men like this in politics and other positions of power.

How is it that we've got to a place where an MP can reasonably suggest BDSM be taught in schools? It's mind-blowing.

I'd only say again that there is no safe way to strangle someone or to practice self strangulation. It is imo a terrible idea to try and teach children and young people 'safe kink' though I could get behind strong boundaries on any promotion of pain, suffering or powerlessness as sexual experiences. But perhaps that would upset the kinksters.

It’s a very dangerous practice. It used to be rather more common - am I allowed to say this- amongst men as an auto erotic practice.

Loyd Russell Moyle, Brighton MP, seems to think there is a "safe" way to practice self strangulation:

"Where I disagree, I am afraid, is on some of the hon. Member’s examples. I did not plan to say this, but during the pandemic, my second cousina 15-year-old boydied in a tragic accident of auto-asphyxiation. It devastated the family, as can be imagined, and happened in the pandemic when we were only allowed six people at the funeral. If he had been taught about risky sex actshe was 15, not a pre-pubescent childand how to make sure he did things safely, rather than just learning something from the internet that then led to the end of his life, he might still be around and his family might not be devastated. So, actually, because of that personal experience I do have a problem with saying that we should not teach any of this to our children."

Strangulation should be illegal.

I know that won't stop it happening but it would weigh the law towards the strangled person.

I used to teach teenagers, and whilst sex education wasn't part of my remit I had a couple of students bring up bondage and one started explaining to me about not having control being the turn on etc.

I told them about the need for safe words / signs and scape plans but also that I thought at 17 they should still be finding 'vanilla' fun.

Fortunately they didn't report me, I would have been out of a job, but I thought it was more important that they were not just getting sex education from porn.

I dated a guy quite a while back now (circa a decade) who was 39 at the time, who was into this and slapping. And he did it without asking. I hated it but despite thinking I’m quite an assertive person, I just sort of recoiled inwards and zoned out on what was happening, instead of telling him to fuck off. And to my horror now, I allowed it to continue for about a year. Never again though. He’d be almost 50 now, a self-declared « feminist ». Wankstain, more like.

I was under the impression the law had changed.

I thought consent was irrelevant in strangulation cases where there is any evidence of harm - bruising, hoarse voice afterwards

The only guy who i encountered online who was keen on this (we never met thank goodness) was early 30s, though I had a couple of others mention it briefly, all under 40. They all said it's driven entirely by the women's desire. Odd then that he was so insistent that I should try it.

To me it's uniquely dangerous among sexual practices and unevenly so for women, given that men have bigger and stronger hands and women have smaller necks with less space for the carotids and smaller larynxes. The fact that this has broken out of extreme kink further into the mainstream shows that the patriarchy is alive and well.

The worst bit is that it doesn't matter if you didn't consent to it. If it "goes wrong" he can claim that it was consensual but went wrong, and you're too dead to testify that you didn't consent.

A change in the law is needed quickly, to introduce a presumption that consent to choke wasn't given unless it can be proven otherwise (in writing for example). I know that "innocent until proven guilty" is an important legal principle in our society, but I don't think that a specific exception such as this would undermine that - it still has to be proved that it was he who did the choking.

I suppose legally there are several factors. Consent is relevant to the sexual element, but is it to the issue of causing injury or death by obviously reckless actions? If we think about death by wilfully dangerous driving, is the sentencing lower if the person killed got into the car willingly, knowing the driver might be under the influence or likely to drive excessively fast, versus killing a stranger? I don't know the answer to that but I don't see why it would be. This seems analogous.
Everyone knows drunk driving or driving excessively fast is reckless and liable to cause injury or death. There have been enough, too many, of these 'accidental' strangulations for anyone to claim ignorance of the dangers. If lack of consent can be proved that should be an aggravating factor or an additional sentence.

I just want nice, pleasant, mutually enjoyable sex. I don't want to be strangled or slapped .

Whenever I read material like this, I think of Fermat (longstanding MNer, I don't know if she's NC) who said (back in 2017/18?) that if she ever started dating, she would tell friends so that they should know that she has a written document where she testifies that she is only interested in plain, 'vanilla' sex. Fermat states that if she is injured or dies at the hands of someone claiming a 'rough sex' justification, then people should know it's not true and speak up.

I'm in my 40s, so perhaps I stand a chance..

but my ex, same age was certainly strongly influenced by porn and the (I can say it now) abusive sex didn't involve strangulation, but his hand strayed close a couple of times, and he was far to rough in general.

It is like they turn their brains off - in what other circumstance would they take this risk with the woman they (supposedly) love? The only other circumstance I hear of choking is MMA fighting - and there, using your hands to choke someone out is an illegal move - exactly because it's so damn dangerous.

I like it sometimes when dp puts his hands on my throat during (with no pressure). Not chocking though. I get the impression he doesn’t like doing it at all, and tbh I suppose I’m glad. I’d feel terrified if someone started choking me during sex. I’m 25, I wouldn’t say it’s normal for my age group so it must be those younger- which is even more worrying.

Children in schools get the message from all the porn soaked / queer theory groups who have colonised sex ed teaching that porn / kink / fetish / degrading women is the done thing. Once you sell the the message that extreme porn is normal / acceptable to young children, their boundaries are fatally compromised. They go on to access age inappropriate content online with some unwary schools using materials from numerous dubious organisations. It's a depressing list. Transgender Trend have detailed many of the dodgy groups - here's their take on the misnamed Proud Trust:
www.transgendertrend.com/proud-trust-nothing-proud/

Call it what it is, non fatal strangulation. You choke on a grape.
I find using the correct terminology makes people pay more attention to the issue.

I'm late 30s but have friends now just around 30 who seemed to think strangulation was pretty normal. I was horrified when they talked about it.

I'm sure I've seen a sex scene on a TV show that had strangulation just dropped in like it was just totally normal too.

@arthurfonzerelli A few years ago I was seeing a man (we were both mid-twenties) who put his hand on my neck the first (and last!) time we had sex. No warning from him and definitely no indication from me that I would like it. He didn't apply pressure but still all I could think was WTF and I removed his hand and got out of there.

Maybe there is hope for older men, I really hope so. The only thing I would say is that you don't know what goes on behind closed doors. I knew this man from work and from the outside (education, profession, demeanour etc.) he wouldn't have appeared to be the strangling type. I'm scared the behaviour has been so mainstreamed that there is no "strangling type" any more, just the majority. I hope I'm wrong.

Lots of women & women have been killed by this practice.

The worst bit is that it doesn't matter if you didn't consent to it. If it "goes wrong" he can claim that it was consensual but went wrong, and you're too dead to testify that you didn't consent.

A change in the law is needed quickly, to introduce a presumption that consent to choke wasn't given unless it can be proven otherwise (in writing for example). I know that "innocent until proven guilty" is an important legal principle in our society, but I don't think that a specific exception such as this would undermine that - it still has to be proved that it was he who did the choking.

Yes, it's quite the thought, isn't it?

How old are you?

I know many single in their late 30s / 40s. I don't think this would cross their mind.

I could be wrong but I think it must be younger men. Early 30s maybe and younger. Probably more in their 20s.

This is the first I came across it.

A light-hearted Instagram page about confessions/embarrassing moments.

It's casually dropped into the last sentence and I just found it incredibly jarring.

It was a few months ago I saw this and I had a look at the comments. There were a few along the lines of "so are we all just choking each other these days, then?" but most didn't mention it, like it was just normal.

In late 30s and I'm fairly certain I don't know anyone that does this. A lot of my friends are very open about sex and I know for sure they don't.

I just cant really get my head around it. Apart from the fact it's bloody dangerous and people have died, it is just not pleasant! Choking is choking. Ie - uncomfortable, frightening, painful, stressful.

The whole thing is just very unsettling.

I would guess the former started to be used deliberately for sexual strangulation by apologists for this dangerous practice because it sounds more innocent. Choking is something that usually happens accidentally; strangulation less so.
Let's call it what it is. Strangulation.

Exactly. It's a deliberate act of deliberate harm.

I am also fairly certain that what is discussed here is being strangled during sex, not choked, but perhaps the usage has changed.

Yes... choking is an obstruction, strangulation is compression.
I would guess the former started to be used deliberately for sexual strangulation by apologists for this dangerous practice because it sounds more innocent. Choking is something that usually happens accidentally; strangulation less so.

Let's call it what it is. Strangulation.