Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Respectful GC resources for teenage DS

42 replies

Balaya · 09/12/2022 00:24

My DS14 has ASD and has always been rather gender non-confirming, very nearly falling into the clutches of Mermaids. He is also very nice and kind to people and will always side with the oppressed minority.

He is a 'he' but if asked pronouns (bloody school) makes a huge song and dance over 'he/she/whatever/I-don't-mind' . I have pretty much managed to stop this by telling him about the sorts of men who just say that to get into women's loos/changing rooms to spy on them.

So today he wants to tell me that TWAW. After a discussion we agreed that no one can change their biological sex but he still believed that TW should be treated as W.

I managed to get him to agree that it's unfair for TW to compete against women in sport, and therefore TWANW. But he was willing to make an exception.

So I reluctantly went with TW in women's prisons as I thought this would be quite clear cut but he did try to argue exceptions (no bad TW allowed in W prisons) although eventually agreed. And he thought there should be 3rd spaces for trans 😊

We left it there but I'd really like to point him at some appropriate and respectful GC material to keep it ticking over in his mind. Any suggestions? Thank you.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/12/2022 10:02

Willoughby really can't get enough of Mumsnet!

Zone2NorthLondon · 09/12/2022 10:01

Be aware thread has been posted to Twitter by India Willoughby
Gender Critical brainwashing and abuse. Poor kid. Clearly disagrees with his terfy mum - but she won’t accept it 😞 Is this supposed to be good parenting? #Mumsnet 🤷‍♀️

teawamutu · 09/12/2022 08:51

I'd add that we started the conversation because he'd seen some radfem stuff over my shoulder and was worried that his beloved mama was an evil TERF, as portrayed and vilified by certain friends. So it was a response, not a starting point.

teawamutu · 09/12/2022 08:45

I gave my same aged son JKR's essay and asked him to read it through before we discussed. He found it compelling.

He has a trans-identifying friend, so I made sure to reiterate I wish this friend nothing but the best. But I was clear that I didn't think 'best' included harmful drugs and surgery, but instead personal and societal acceptance of them as a person.

He got it.

saraclara · 09/12/2022 07:46

Your kids don't have to agree with you, or to prioritise the issues that you do. So you need to start with that understanding and take it slowly and respectfully.

It sounds as though you did a really good job, and you can continue to have these good natured conversations that gently introduce the problems and make him think.
But I think buying books, making him watch things etc, comes close to indoctrination.

Continue to talk, and listen to him genuinely, and you'll get further than any book will.

Blondlashes · 09/12/2022 07:44

I though that was a good explanation on Twitter twitter.com/zaelefty/status/1598700563348131841?s=46&t=Y1lg4fgo0dnB_HHB-MjO1g

Wellies54 · 09/12/2022 07:39

It's good to give them an opposing opinion because they see so much inaccuracy online. Had some interesting discussions with my 14 yr old too. He agrees you can't change sex and that genders are daft, that TW shouldn't be in female sport or prisons but believes you can have a female brain in a male body, sex is a mix of reproduction, hormones, brain etc and that there are hidden anti trans messages in JKRs essay! I have hope that he'll come round to facts. It must be hard though when all their friends are very captured.

drwitch · 09/12/2022 07:25

But a simple push back on getting him to think what it means to treat someone as a woman might get him to think

drwitch · 09/12/2022 07:23

Children have a right to be wrong and also need to learn to respect others people's opinion. I think so long as he respects your view and does not want to transition himself then you have done an excellent job

Teenagers believe mad things and have always done (I wrote a cross letter to Micheal foot about deselecting Peter tatchell at that age) and will just double down if you push too hard

CoraggioCara · 09/12/2022 07:21

OP I tend to use BBC articles about VAWG as a talking point. I bookmark them and sometimes we'll read one together.

Because they have little understanding of male violence, it's quite hard in the abstract for young men to see why women need safe spaces.

namitynamechange · 09/12/2022 07:13

JK Rowlings essay is short, simple and gets to the point. Its also completely accessible online.

Partofthefurniture · 09/12/2022 01:34

I did think it was probably a bit of a heavy read for his age group.

Original poster
Balaya · 09/12/2022 01:31

These all look good, thank you I'll give them a go.

He's a very young 14 so maybe reading handmaid's tale would be a step too far but I often need evidence when speaking to him so could definitely reference some parts as historically accurate.

OP posts:
PronounsBaby · 09/12/2022 01:29

Jeeze, I really doubt any 14 yo will be able to get through material girls! I felt like I needed a pen and paper when listening to the audiobook! It's not a light read, and as great as it is, definitely aimed at degree educated adults.

I'd get him 'Sex and Gender, an introductory guide' by Phoebe Rose.

www.transgendertrend.com/product/sex-and-gender/

This book is great, aimed at the right age group, simple explanation of the difference and loads of illustrations.
Very much fact based and non-sterotyping approach. And only £3.99!

Partofthefurniture · 09/12/2022 01:18

Are they doing the handmaids tale in school? Is 14 too young for all the horrific content?

If you think it would be appropriate now or in the future it would make a good springboard for discussion about women's sex based oppression.

All the things done to women in the books have been done to women in real life.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 09/12/2022 00:32

If he's at all into maths invisible women by Caroline Criado Perez. Not directly about trans ideology at all, but outlines in incredible and thorough detail some of the ways in which sex is both real and continues to matter especially for women.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 09/12/2022 00:29

Material Girls by Professor Stock is excellent. I'm paraphrasing from a book review but it was described as if the two sides could meet in the middle they would find Professor Stock waiting with a picnic laid out.