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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is feminism unfairly demonising boys/men?

221 replies

Axolotlquestions · 07/12/2022 08:56

I'm seeing a lot of pushback at feminism in 'gender critical' circles because it's being lumped in with critical social justice. That is, the mentality that says all white people carry the guilt of centuries of racism is also applied to the concept of sexism, with all men being blamed for patriarchy. I'm trying to get my head around my position on this.

Could the wise feminist minds of Mumsnet take a look at this and give me your thoughts?
genspect.org/girls-are-better-than-boys/

OP posts:
Heavyraindropsarefallingonmyhead · 07/12/2022 09:56

The articles start tells us how girls are born knowing how to behave better so it's harder for boys. You know like 'women are better at housework/cooking/parenting/life admin because of their nature'.

Wow we are starting young with piling the pressure on girls to be better because they were born that way and if they aren't then they mustn't be a good girl aren't we.

Boys behaviour however is excused because it's so much harder for them to behave well.

And when they learn about sexism, slavery, racism and rape culture that then apparently triggers them to be interested in hard core porn.

Because of course that's an obvious link 'oh shit rape is bad, better go watch some porn videos where rape is depicted'

Yeah this is totally womens faults, not those poor men who apparently can't control their behaviour from start to finish and anything they do wrong is because of us.

You know what is demonising men? Shit like this that assumes men have no control over their thoughts, actions or feelings and that anything they do bad is someone else's fault.

I believe men are capable of so much more than this article would have you believe, that doesn't make me/us the ones causing the issue.

resistingreality · 07/12/2022 09:52

Have I missed something (or read something into this that isn't there) but is this person referring to the thing I think we're not allowed to mention on these boards, at the end? It doesn't sound like they think they've been a woman all along - but that their 'virtual friends' have tried to convince them? Anyway, I don't think this is really about what they think it's about ...

'Meanwhile, your devotion to porn grows deeper. More and more, the excitement you feel, and
the humiliation that fuels so much it, arises from seeing yourself as a woman. Your virtual
friends online convince you that you’ve been a woman all along, and that there’s an obvious
solution to the shame-ridden distress you have felt since … well … forever.'

AlisonDonut · 07/12/2022 09:49

Just to say, I worked with young adult males 14-19 a few years back. I worked with some really damaged males, who had mental health issues, many who played the game of 'I can't see words', who got 'support' at school to write and ended up becoming so far behind all the others they could never catch up, who had been in youth offender units, who had committed extreme violence towards women and girls, and in many cases, towards other young men and boys.

That 'essay' really reminded me of their constant excuses to be honest. It was never their fault.

AlisonDonut · 07/12/2022 09:43

I'm surprised Stella has fallen for this shite.

QuickNameChangeAgain · 07/12/2022 09:43

And I'm failing to see what anything in that article has to do with feminism.

Agree with this. I'm failing to see the connection too.

I do think there needs to be a conversation had around the concept of white privilege and male privilege and, of course, "cis" privilege. The way people talk about it as a given. Other views do exist.

Circumferences · 07/12/2022 09:42

You hate yourself for being a bad porn-addicted member of the patriarchy.

^And then you learn you can opt out – from male privilege, toxic masculinity, and rape culture –
from all of it. Being non-binary or pansexual or some gender identity even more exotic means
you don’t have to be a member of the bad patriarchy^

What the fuck load of drivel did I just read? Why are you asking feminists to read something from this navel gazer at his one man pity party?
Also, you can't start a paragraph with "And".

It's not women's fault that men get addicted to porn and become mentally unwell 🤷

CarPoor · 07/12/2022 09:39

If men want to not be demonised I suggest they target the people who's actions are responsible for them being "demonised".

Kucingsparkles · 07/12/2022 09:35

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad.

This 👆🏼and also:

  1. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.
  1. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry
TheYummyPatler · 07/12/2022 09:34

Maybe men should simply take more
responsibility for this stuff. Not just say, ‘oh I’m not like that’.

Let’s face it, men as a group will change their behaviour when other men challenge and ostracise them for their problematic behaviour.

And boys need much better male role models.

bellinisurge · 07/12/2022 09:34

@maddy68 , men need to stop raping women. Men need to stop other men getting away with it.
Then we can talk about women having to do something better. I'm

AlisonDonut · 07/12/2022 09:31

It reads very much like 'it's everyone else's fault, mainly women and girls, as to why I decided to call myself a girl'.

What are your thoughts OP?

Is it womens' and girls' fault, for understanding the unwritten rules of good behaviour [which may well stem from being afraid that someone [a boy/man] will thump them if they step out of line] that males try and opt out of 'toxic masculinity' and call themselves girls?

maddy68 · 07/12/2022 09:27

bellinisurge · 07/12/2022 08:58

It's for men to fix their own problems and the dangerous feckers who are men. Feminism is for women and girls.

Why ? When it's a problem being foisted on them by woman.

men and women alike need to be better

ditalini · 07/12/2022 09:27

Yes I read the article. I think it's a very twisted and partial description of how boys experience the world.

Porn use is a cancer to young sexuality (for both sexes), but it's not inevitable - it's a choice.

Some boys (and girls) find it hard to concentrate in class but my experience (I have one of those boys) is that teachers use lots of strategies to support them - I don't recognise demonisation here either.

And I'm failing to see what anything in that article has to do with feminism. More like capitalism found another way to sell sex - Jon Ronson's podcast on the origins and rise of Pornhub and the "free" porn explosion is good on this.

bellinisurge · 07/12/2022 09:23

@waterwitch would be surprised at anyone on this board thinking women don't get maths. Seriously perplexed by anyone in my generation (teen/young adult in the 1980s) who believes that kind of regressive nonsense. Or anyone old enough to have lived through WWII who thinks that nonsense given the achievements of women then.
This is a few dumbass millennials thinking that's what old people think.

waterwitch · 07/12/2022 09:19

Not completely on-subject, but I am often astounded by casual sexism in both directions.

I don’t find ‘mansplaining’ any more acceptable as a concept than assuming that women ‘don’t get maths’.
“The bast man for the job is a woman” not necessarily

It would be much better for everyone if nobody made assumptions based purely on sex-based stereotypes. That would be my preference - hence my lack of patience with the concept of gender.

33goingon64 · 07/12/2022 09:18

ditalini · 07/12/2022 09:16

Sigh. Yes, yes NAMALT.

Really? Demonised you say? Can you give a couple of examples of all men being demonised so I've got a clearer idea of what that looks like?

Did you read OP's post and the article? Or just the thread title.

ditalini · 07/12/2022 09:16

Sigh. Yes, yes NAMALT.

Really? Demonised you say? Can you give a couple of examples of all men being demonised so I've got a clearer idea of what that looks like?

SunThroughTheCloudsAt6am · 07/12/2022 09:14

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad.

Much like when disciplining children, or Christian rhetoric - it's the behaviour that's the problem, not the men themselves. If men would stop behaving so poorly, they wouldn't be thought of so poorly.

The most I can do is my best to turn my children in to good people.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 07/12/2022 09:11

If a man rapes a woman and a feminist highlights that: who is responsible for the his demonisation? Him for doing it or her for describing it?

don’t need to read the link to know this is yet another attempt to blame women for men’d faults.

bellinisurge · 07/12/2022 09:05

I don't feel we are putting an unjustified amount of pressure on men for sorting their shit out. I don't believe they are having to shoulder a historical burden of crimes past. It's crimes now - 2 women a week are murdered by men.

bellinisurge · 07/12/2022 08:58

It's for men to fix their own problems and the dangerous feckers who are men. Feminism is for women and girls.