Women's rights general conversations

I really don't think this is a big enough issue to the average person for it to cause Labour to lose an election. I wish it was.

I do think they could be persuaded to change their policy if put under enough pressure.

Well, tragically, Starmer has probably just guaranteed another 5 years of Tory rule.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11570689/Labour-war-Scotlands-new-law-changing-gender.html

Sir Keir Starmer would change the law to allow transgender people to self-identify their gender if Labour is elected, it has been revealed.

Here's the Guardian's unbalanced and entirely sycophantic view on the vote:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/23/scotlands-trans-rights-campaigners-react-to-gender-recognition-reform-bill

Nothing new to this story. The Telegraph is just stirring. All they’ve got is a fairly bland holding line from the Labour press office. Labour are hardly going to unveil a whole new policy stance in this issue two days before Christmas.

Having said that, I’m not quite sure why Labour was whipped to vote for GRR in Scotland when “we cannot back this imperfect legislation” was a line that could have held. Maybe.

it will be interesting to see how Labour reacts to whatever the UK government does re Scotland.

I keep some hope alive but it’s going to be very, very difficult for Labour to walk back. I thought this was an interesting thread from a moderate GC Labour councillor who (I think) works in policy for the Law Society: twitter.com/elliecumbo/status/1606242620816113665?s=61&t=CYZZfz6kts4bYsGs6oTu8g

Lachlan Stuart (who used to work for Corbyn) has also tweeted interestingly about how Labour has subtlety shifted its language over the past year or so.

Jeepers! There's a lot of Labour MPs who've swallowed the cool aid. I'm disappointed in Corbyn and McDonnell. The rest Don't surprise me.

I have nursed on exactly such a ward and now nurse on a more general ward, where everyone has a single room but each room has a shared bathroom with its neighbour, accessible from both bedrooms. I can promise you that staff are acutely aware of risks, and never leave women in a vulnerable state where someone could get access to them. I cannot speak for all hospitals but in ours, we have had these conversations at ward level and if it came to pass that someone of one sex identifying as a different sex were admitted, they would find themselves very lucky to be placed in one of the few single rooms that does not have a shared bathroom. Staffing is such that there is simply no way there would be a time when two patients would be left alone. We have had situations where some women due to the nature of their condition, have acted in a very uninhibited way, and in those cases staff have made double sure they were safe at all times.

Like I say, I cannot speak for all hospitals but in mine, conversations are being had among staff all the time about these changes and what it means for us and our duty of care.

Surely you mean the 'Kimono-clad Fox Killer Vanity Project '?

MN may need to have a look at their algorithms - I see the promoted thread currently at the top of the page is for the Good Law Project.

Jeez. Just. Think. It. Through. You could start with the science, Angela. When medical records start being tampered with, what chaos will result? I like politicians who say what they believe, even if I disagree with them, but I find it very hard to believe that women like Rayner or Nandy really believe in what they are saying, but rather are toeing what they think to be a popularist line.

I‘m not surprised. Angela Rayner has been very vocal about how hateful we all are.

Oops! Re the optimism of my last post, I see just now on a new Keir Starmer thread in this folder (sorry I can't give a link cos I'm posting on my phone, but it's easy to find), that Labour may after all be doubling down on their previous words. I always argued that KS was no more a 'smart' politician than Corbyn, and has he yet found a way to alienate half the electorate? You could weep, but it's no joke.

Tory safe seat here. My MP will probably fall whichever side his career is safest on.

Ditto here, except that my MP is 79 years old and no longer gives a shit, beyond converting his knighthood into a seat in the Lords. He only ever answers emails if they begin along the lines of "Dear Sir Thingy, I was just so hugely impressed by what you said about X, I so agree!" and continue "Oh, and by the way, what do you think about Y? I am inclined to think Z ... what do you think?" The response is always "Thank you for for kind message." Full stop.

All emails not beginning with a compliment get an auto-reply saying that he can only respond to emails from constituents who state their name, address, phone number and (arf!) email address at the top of the message. You get this even if you have done so.

Tory safe seat here. My MP will probably fall whichever side his career is safest on.

Oh, yes - I came here to post the latest Met police thing: unjustified strip search, allowed men to observe, given warning but kept job. twitter.com/AVintenAuthor/status/1605962727406575617?t=SUtQUIWLBe8Y9sIqneQInw&s=19

@CyanCyan

I'll double check how I feel about that tomorrow in the cold light of day, but yes, I think I might well do that. I can add at the same time that she won't be getting my vote whilst Labour's policy stays as it is. But now that the issue is belatedly on the Guardian's front page (I noticed earlier in the corner shop), I think perhaps the policy may change.

Exactly this!

And that is an excellent setting out of that particular problem, Cyan. We're probably having elections here before too long, so I shall be sending questions on that to all the main candidates.

Just wanted to say thank you for posting that.

I spoiled my vote at the local elections in May. I had heard that the candidates get to see every spoiled ballot, so I wrote a bit of an essay. It was something like:

"I would rather poke out my own eyesthan vote Conservative, but while Labour, LibDems and Greens continue to pretend that men are women, I will not vote for any of them "

Please feel free to use it any way you like @duc748, perhaps I should send it to my Labour MP because I feel this particular issue isn’t being represented enough.

I wonder if anyone who thinks my concerns are bigoted or trivial because they’re part of the ‘it will never happen’ or the ‘it wouldn’t bother me’ brigade would be happy for their daughters to be on a mixed-sex psychiatric ward. I can’t stress how frightening a women-only ward can be at times, let alone adding penises into the equation.

Perhaps I should c&p Cyan's post and send it to Lisa Nandy.

@CyanCyan

And of course I doubt one in a thousand, men or women, would disagree with you, or call you bigoted. But, for better or worse, if the problem is that the issue is insufficiently understood, it looks like that may change soon, because events.

It was reading the Guardian article about Karen White, in which he is consistently referred to as she, that made me think the world’s gone mad.

I do think people get it. At least people over 30… I had a conversation with ex colleagues recently - some of whom had been in HR - were all were uneasy with the direction of travel and the Stonewall polemic. The women in the group got it straight away; the men asked what the problem was, and when we we explained (males with no surgery, only a piece of paper, in places like prison, etc) to be fair straight away they said Oh, yes, I see what you mean. But most of the public don’t hear about it and this is all taking place over their heads.

That reminds me of this horrific incident.

metro.co.uk/2018/01/14/woman-who-feared-men-accused-of-transphobia-after-objecting-to-hospital-room-with-trans-woman-7227597/

And of course, the notorious Karen White, who was convicted of sexual assaults in a women's prison, was in prison in the first place because he'd raped a woman on a psychiatric ward.

That is the absolute definition of needing a safe single sex space. Why can’t people understand that?!

Can I share some bigoted thoughts I’ve been having?

I know that hospital wards have been mentioned, but I’m particularly concerned about psychiatric wards and I haven’t yet come across a discussion about this specifically.

I was an inpatient on a psychiatric ward when I was very unwell with depression. They are single-sex. Many women who are in there are, as you can imagine, extremely vulnerable. Many women are there because they have been traumatised by sexual abuse, rape and/or domestic violence. Many women are there against their will and have no option to leave because they’re detained under section. Many women are incapacitated from sedating medications. Some are practically unconscious from antipsychotic injections, some are catatonic. Bedroom doors can’t necessarily be locked from inside, and sometimes the door needs to be left open so staff have easy access should you be a suicide risk. Sometimes you are locked out of your room to encourage socialising. Toilet and showerroom doors are either absent or shaped in such a way that someone can see over the top of them, to ensure you aren’t self harming. Staff are sometimes absent, either because they’re in handover or because they’re all caught up with a patient who is harming themselves.

I can’t tell you how distressing I would have found it to have been locked up, against my will, mentally unwell, incapacitated by sedatives, with mentally unwell men. I really don’t care if some people think this makes me a hateful bigot. I would encourage them to try it out for themselves.