Page 4 | Women protesting in front of Alameda County Courthouse attacked!

Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 11:24

And during that attack, they have been now shown on body cam footage as helping one person climb mountains... and I am sure the effect will ripple through to many people. Well done those males!

OP posts:

Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 11:14

GrinitchSpinach · 07/12/2022 10:55

The greatest violence in Tacoma was perpetrated by the man who broke a woman’s fingers with his own bare hands.

I would like to make something very clear to those who are reading this thread in good faith:

This is event was organized and funded by WDI USA. KJK and SfW do tons of good work, but neither Kellie-Jay nor Standing for Women was remotely involved in WDI USA’s Oakland action.

WDI USA is committed to nonviolence, even in the face of violence from male supremacists. The women were unarmed and as you can see in the footage did not fight back or give chase to their attackers.

Here is the newly-posted bodycam footage:

mobile.twitter.com/JeanMazeks/status/1600359265113636865

Thank you for posting that link. That showed clearly the action that these males took.

And this was a 'silent' protest that the women were doing in front of that lake.

A 'silent' protest and they were attacked.

OP posts:

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/12/2022 11:10

Whataboutery is always the resort of posters like that, of whom there have been a million on FWR over the years. The poster does seem to have an awfully familiar schtick so I don't think they are particularly new here. I'm just scrolling their posts because I don't see anything interesting or worthwhile in their takes.

Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 11:09

Onnabugeisha · 07/12/2022 10:50

I’m not victim blaming anyone btw. I’m simply saying you must be very naive and sheltered to think protests in the USA do not carry with them the risk of violence and even death, especially if you are a minority. It’s a violent country. The women who went are undeniably brave to have gone. Especially the Black woman as the risk to her is far greater over there due to how racist that country is.

Of course all violence is unacceptable, but, yes I am uncomfortable with your attempt to portray a cream pie and a few eggs by calling it some “new norm” and implying that it is more violent than before- when over a dozen protesters have been killed at USA protests in since Covid, the vast majority of whom have been black men and women. In addition, an Asian woman was beaten unconscious at a recent protest on 28 Nov in the US at Columbia University. Many of the abortion protests after Roe v Wade was overturned that sprang up were far more chaotic and violent than the protest you are shocked over and that was mostly women as well.

So, yes it is my opinion that it is tone deaf to sit in the U.K. and demand the USA should express moral outrage over a few white women getting some whipped cream and egg yolk on them. The USA doesn’t see anything less than actual bodily harm (mace, punching, hitting) and death as violence. We do, but they do not. They do not count the wounded pride of white women having egg on their face.

Yes, I am giving you backlash for caring more about white women with cream and egg on them than you care about minority men and women being beaten unconscious or murdered at USA protests. I know you’ll “say” you care about both, but if you actually did you would not have written your opening the posts in such a manner so as to erase these injuries and deaths by pretending cream pies and eggs are a “new norm” that represents higher levels of violence. You can only present this narrative by erasing the actual higher violence that has already occurs and continues to occur- that being the serious injuries and deaths of minority protesters in the USA.

The bottom line is, the protest in California was peaceful by American standards as no one was injured, and that’s a lucky escape for a USA protest. That’s just the reality of things there. This isn’t condoning it or saying throwing food at protesters is acceptable, it’s just how they roll over there.

You have broadened the discussion to suit your own purposes.

My post was not about protests in general in the USA. And I do accept that there is violence associated with many protests in the USA.

Are you honestly trying to tell us, onnabug that ALL, every single woman's rally, in the USA has been met with violence in the past. Not large scale protests. But public gatherings of 10-30 women and every single time there has been violence?

Show us your evidence here.

Because you are again talking bollocks. And now you are bringing race into it.

Why? Why are you bringing race into it? There are women of every racial background at these events where women are speaking. I am not singling out just acts against white women.

And while you can continue to dismiss the eggs and the pies as 'not really that violent in the scheme of things' , yes. You absolutely are dismissing violent acts against women by minimising those acts.

Go start a thread about the wider environment of violence in the USA.

This thread is and continues to be about the violence that small groups of women face when meeting in public in both the USA and the UK.

OP posts:

GrinitchSpinach · 07/12/2022 11:07

I think that poster has made their point (that peaceful women in the public square should face political violence as long as no one is seriously injured) and we have disagreed.

At this point I would love to move on from their domination of the discussion by saying the same thing over and over.

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 07/12/2022 11:00

Here is the newly-posted bodycam footage:

Those brave young men weren't messing, were they? That first egg, thrown with all his strength?!?! Such a brave use of the brolly and pushbike too!

FFS! and @Onnabugeisha wants us to do what? Acknowledge a whole heap of other stuff before we can settle to talk about the stuff we want to talk about!?!?!?

Pshaw!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/12/2022 11:00

They will raise this to actual violence, they're just getting their confidence up and proving that you can do what the fuck you like to women in the name of this agenda and there's no consequences.

Yes, I think so too.

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 07/12/2022 10:55

I am giving you backlash for caring more about white women with cream and egg on them than you care about minority men and women being beaten unconscious or murdered at USA protests.

If that's your schtick then why not just say so? Why make up lies that we all know the truth of?

And where do you get that value judgment form? Another thing you have manufactured from wholecloth?

We are women talking about women's rights on a forum for such discussions.

Should we also discuss the tiresome and troubling way that guinea pigs are reared for the pet industry prior to discussing anything about women's rights? What else should come before women's rights, on a forum for discussing women's rights?

Do tell!

GrinitchSpinach · 07/12/2022 10:55

The greatest violence in Tacoma was perpetrated by the man who broke a woman’s fingers with his own bare hands.

I would like to make something very clear to those who are reading this thread in good faith:

This is event was organized and funded by WDI USA. KJK and SfW do tons of good work, but neither Kellie-Jay nor Standing for Women was remotely involved in WDI USA’s Oakland action.

WDI USA is committed to nonviolence, even in the face of violence from male supremacists. The women were unarmed and as you can see in the footage did not fight back or give chase to their attackers.

Here is the newly-posted bodycam footage:

mobile.twitter.com/JeanMazeks/status/1600359265113636865

Onnabugeisha · 07/12/2022 10:50

I’m not victim blaming anyone btw. I’m simply saying you must be very naive and sheltered to think protests in the USA do not carry with them the risk of violence and even death, especially if you are a minority. It’s a violent country. The women who went are undeniably brave to have gone. Especially the Black woman as the risk to her is far greater over there due to how racist that country is.

Of course all violence is unacceptable, but, yes I am uncomfortable with your attempt to portray a cream pie and a few eggs by calling it some “new norm” and implying that it is more violent than before- when over a dozen protesters have been killed at USA protests in since Covid, the vast majority of whom have been black men and women. In addition, an Asian woman was beaten unconscious at a recent protest on 28 Nov in the US at Columbia University. Many of the abortion protests after Roe v Wade was overturned that sprang up were far more chaotic and violent than the protest you are shocked over and that was mostly women as well.

So, yes it is my opinion that it is tone deaf to sit in the U.K. and demand the USA should express moral outrage over a few white women getting some whipped cream and egg yolk on them. The USA doesn’t see anything less than actual bodily harm (mace, punching, hitting) and death as violence. We do, but they do not. They do not count the wounded pride of white women having egg on their face.

Yes, I am giving you backlash for caring more about white women with cream and egg on them than you care about minority men and women being beaten unconscious or murdered at USA protests. I know you’ll “say” you care about both, but if you actually did you would not have written your opening the posts in such a manner so as to erase these injuries and deaths by pretending cream pies and eggs are a “new norm” that represents higher levels of violence. You can only present this narrative by erasing the actual higher violence that has already occurs and continues to occur- that being the serious injuries and deaths of minority protesters in the USA.

The bottom line is, the protest in California was peaceful by American standards as no one was injured, and that’s a lucky escape for a USA protest. That’s just the reality of things there. This isn’t condoning it or saying throwing food at protesters is acceptable, it’s just how they roll over there.

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 07/12/2022 10:42

Did I get Portland confused? I suspect I did!

Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 10:41

The pepper spray wasn’t in self defence in Tacoma

Yes it was.

Not only had she been sprayed just minutes before with silly string stuff, the person she pepper sprayed deliberately walked up to her, stood practically touching her and stared at her for around 4 minutes.

And then spat at her.

Spitting is assault.

That person was sprayed after they pushed the sign away that the woman used to defend herself from being spat at.

You can try to twist it all you like onnabug, I believe you have before.

The pepper spray was used because a person used intimidation tactics before spitting at the woman.

You are dismissing the first act, intimidation, completely and the second act, spitting, completely as well.

That is on you. Own it.

You are dismissing violence against women. Just as I believe you have before.

OP posts:

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 07/12/2022 10:38

Funny how you failed to recall how at least one woman at Tacoma also brought mace and used it. So they weren’t all singing, chanting and saying mean things. (See pic below)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Some of us have seen the full footage that still was taken from, exchanged posts with the woman involved. You can't pull that one sweetheart!

That woman had been pushed, threatened and bullied by the man in the picture. He then spat at her, which is when she sprayed him - and it was not mace. The man to the side had a cannister that was mace, and he stepped in to spray her. She was physically assaulted by 2 men.

Oh, and it wasn't Tacoma!

You have cobbled together a sad conglomeration of half truths and are doing the same old sad same old. Spreading disinformation and flat out lies to make a point that cannot be sustained any other way!

Sad.

Onnabugeisha · 07/12/2022 10:22

The pepper spray wasn’t in self defence in Tacoma. Nice try though. It was, how did you put it “No reasonable person would ever think these responses are proportionate”, it was a disproportionate response and escalation of violence.

Im not dismissing any violence btw, Ive said it is all violence.

It seems you are the only one dismissing violence by firstly neglecting to mention the greatest violence in Tacoma was done by women and when that is pointed out, you then go on to justify this violence because it was done by a woman.

Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 09:39

So safe to say that since spraying an unknown substance that turns out to be harmless, then likewise spraying mace which is definitely not harmless would also be violence and of a greater degree. And greater violence than cream pies or eggs come to think of it.

There it is!

In one paragraph of misrepresentation of a woman defending herself, onnabug dismisses violence towards women. In fact, seems to be justifying violence by placing spraying defensive pepper spray at a greater level of violence than attackers throwing and spraying unknown substances.

OP posts:

Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 09:27

Onnabugeisha · 07/12/2022 00:19

Its all violence, but some violence is objectively worse than other violence so that’s not something I would say. I presume you are taking about the recent protest in Tacoma that was part of the Standing Up for Women Tour?

Funny how you failed to recall how at least one woman at Tacoma also brought mace and used it. So they weren’t all singing, chanting and saying mean things. (See pic below)

and allegation of same woman’s later use on another protester:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=kgOUSN2g5Bw

So safe to say that since spraying an unknown substance that turns out to be harmless, then likewise spraying mace which is definitely not harmless would also be violence and of a greater degree. And greater violence than cream pies or eggs come to think of it.

Protests often get heated in the US. The more people that show up, the greater the risk of violence.

Show quote history

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4663595-standing-for-women-portland-rally-cancelled-over-violent-threats?page=1

Yes. I was referring to this thread. Maybe you would like to point out your posts on that thread linked.

Funny how you failed to recall how at least one woman at Tacoma also brought mace and used it.

Yes. One woman used it in self defense. Nice selective screen capture there. It missed the person stepping up to within inches of the woman’s face and staring for around 4 minutes before that person spat at her. I know because I analysed the clip and the actions taken.

oh yeah… the man standing to the shoulder of that person, also was carrying spray and sprayed it at the woman. She sprayed him too.

Let us also tell readers that the woman had been assaulted a few days before in Portland. The event where cream pies were thrown at women.

And also please give us the time stamp for where that teenager claimed it was the same person? And please point out the footage that supported that claim? You know the one they claimed was evidence? If I remember correctly that same man that we know had pepper spray was right there with that teenager, who had been previously also videoed spitting at women and was actively intimidating women leaving the event. The women had already left the space minutes before and were walking away.

Your post is full of cobbled together misrepresentations meant to portray a woman who was defending herself as the attacker.

Was that woman right to take pepper spray, maybe not. but then she had been assaulted that week already?

Those protesters who were intimidating women, the drowning out of women’s voices, the stepping up to push women back, the spitting and the spraying and the breaking of hands with the final acts of following women leaving, could have chosen to peacefully protest.

They did not. They chose violence.

”likewise spraying mace which is definitely not harmless would also be violence and of a greater degree. And greater violence than cream pies or eggs come to think of it.”

And that is fucked up to compare a woman defending herself with people attacking women with unknown substances.

So fucked up.

OP posts:

Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 09:02

Onnabugeisha · 06/12/2022 22:05

No, it’s not acceptable but it’s a bit tone deaf to say

“It is such a concern that these events are encountering violent males every time now.” Along with “This seems to be the new norm. A pie in the face and destruction of signs.“

When you look at the USA and protests that this “new norm” is actually much less violent than in the recent past and of such insignificance compared to the murderous violence that quite a few peaceful BLM protesters have faced in recent years.

If it’s a “new norm” for the USA it is actually quite heartening to see compared to killed by gun violence, death by vehicle, water cannons and tear gas. 🤷‍♀️

Show quote history

So, rather than point out to the world how far this has now gone, that it is not just large scale protests that turn violent in a country that prides itself on being that democracy leader for the world, you advise proportionality.

You are here saying, look at what could have happened and those women should be thankful.

You are saying that a small rally for women speaking, sometimes with just 10 or so women peacefully making speeches on the footsteps of the court house and surrounds, such as this Oakland event, should of course, expect violence. And that us discussing it and pointing out that this is unacceptable and has gone too far, is ‘tone deaf’.

Do you think that readers don’t see your tactics? When on your own thread you use extreme polarisation to categorise a polite question to a child or teen as ‘attack’, ‘confrontational, ‘harassment’ and ‘abuse’ and implore feminists, who you tried to blame for children being asked if they were in the right toilet, to never ‘attack’ children. Like feminists are ‘attacking’ children???

Your posts lack coherency and consistency.

No! Women don’t have to shut up about the violence that women! Including middle aged women dressed in t-shirts with their faces not covered, who have faced at rallies where there should be no expectation of violence.

Not only do your posts effectively declare those attacking women with eggs, water, silly string and pies in the face as not doing egregious acts compared to others who killed people they disagree with.

Your posts victim blame the women for the violent acts against them.

Tone deaf? Discussing violence against women on a feminist board?

Well fuck! Whoodathunkit!

OP posts:

nilsmousehammer · 07/12/2022 07:37

I have got to stop reading these threads first thing in the morning. Starting the day absolutely sickened by the depths of which this ideology will sink, and the pernicious waffle that some will employ to in order to further their hatred of females is bloody awful for mental health and any lingering faith in the goodness of this world.

nilsmousehammer · 07/12/2022 07:23

Violence to women is ok if they deserve it and it's not actually maiming or killing them (yet). I don't believe I'm hearing this.

Fgs the lengths some people will go to to excuse and justify the absolutely fucking totally unacceptable. Psychopathy in the name of the new religious mania.

Onnabugeisha · 07/12/2022 00:19

Helleofabore · 06/12/2022 19:38

Well onnabug considering we had quite a number (were you one of them?) of posters on the Tacoma thread stating that pies and silly string were not acts of violence or that those acts were dismissed because the women were singing, chanting and yelling mean things, I guess it is not just the USA, is it? I assume that the large % of those posters were based here in the UK.

Indeed at least one of them continued on the Hyde Park thread and declared having an unknown substance sprayed in women's faces was not an act of violence either.

Its all violence, but some violence is objectively worse than other violence so that’s not something I would say. I presume you are taking about the recent protest in Tacoma that was part of the Standing Up for Women Tour?

Funny how you failed to recall how at least one woman at Tacoma also brought mace and used it. So they weren’t all singing, chanting and saying mean things. (See pic below)

and allegation of same woman’s later use on another protester:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=kgOUSN2g5Bw

So safe to say that since spraying an unknown substance that turns out to be harmless, then likewise spraying mace which is definitely not harmless would also be violence and of a greater degree. And greater violence than cream pies or eggs come to think of it.

Protests often get heated in the US. The more people that show up, the greater the risk of violence.

Women protesting in front of Alameda County Courthouse attacked!

Onnabugeisha · 06/12/2022 23:48

RoseslnTheHospital · 06/12/2022 23:34

Every post just emphasises how much you seem to want each of those things to have happened to these particular women. It's transparent.

Don’t be ridiculous, you’re only upset because it’s showing the shock & horror over a cream pie and an egg or two, is over-egging things a bit. You can decry violence while putting it into its proper perspective:

Lets all pause a moment to think about this young woman:
28 November 2022- A woman taking part in this week’s protest at Columbia University against China’s COVID lockdown was repeatedly punched in the head and knocked unconscious, police say. The 21-year-old victim was demonstrating with other people on West 116th Street just before 8 p.m. when a man she didn’t know approached her and punched her multiple times in the head, causing her to pass out, cops said.

RoseslnTheHospital · 06/12/2022 23:34

Every post just emphasises how much you seem to want each of those things to have happened to these particular women. It's transparent.

Onnabugeisha · 06/12/2022 23:31

The women were lucky they weren’t peacefully protesting Native Americans too.
Police Use Water Cannon on Dakota Pipeline Protesters [Drone Footage]
m.youtube.com/watch?v=tpDx__pY-sw

RoseslnTheHospital · 06/12/2022 23:20

So, add patronising to the list too.

Onnabugeisha · 06/12/2022 23:16

RoseslnTheHospital · 06/12/2022 22:39

"It's not acceptable, but... " isn't a genuine expression of thinking it's not acceptable. It's like those crap mealy mouthed apologies where people say "I'm sorry if you were offended". It's insincere. You can try to hide it but your anger at women with opinions different to yours is palpable.

Im not angry, I just think you’re confusing the USA with the U.K.

Protests are not usually peaceful there. Full stop. It’s a bit naive to be pretending that cream pies and an egg or two are some new escalation in violence for the US and women are being targeted with heightened violence and assaults. What these women experienced could easily have been far worse.

This description matches the average protest from the ones I’ve seen/been to in the USA: “Within an hour of meeting, both sides began pushing, punching, paint-balling, and macing each other. There was one incident in which a protester pointed a gun at other protesters, with no shots fired.”

Side note: King Charles III has had eggs thrown at him twice in the past month….what’s your thought on that?

Here’s a quick list of recent deaths of protesters in the USA. I don’t have time to trawl for all of them, but deaths are the tip of a pyramid. Usually there are tons of minor injuries requiring medical attention during protests.

31 May 2020
A 19-year-old man has died in Detroit after shots were fired into a crowd of people protesting against the death of unarmed black man George Floyd in Minneapolis.

25 July 2020
Garret Foster shot and killed by Daniel Perry after Daniel Perry drove his car into a crowd of BLM protesters. He was pushing his quadruple-amputee fiancée’s wheelchair before he was killed.

25 Aug 2020
Kenosha, Washington, Kyle Rittenhouse shot three men, two fatally in August 2020 when he was 17 years old. At his trial in November 2021, a jury found Rittenhouse not guilty of murder.

29 Aug 2020
On August 29, a large group of pro-Trump counterprotesters, arrived in downtown Portland. They were met with opposition from the protesters, resulting in multiple instances of physical clashes.[83] 1 counterprotester was shot and killed in an incident during the protest.

6 January 2021
Alisha Babbitt took a fatal bullet to the chest during the mayhem inside the Capitol. Video footage captured the sound of the gunshot, and showed the woman crumpling to the floor from multiple angles.

13 June 2021,
Minneapolis, a man drove a car into a crowd of demonstrators who had gathered as a part of the ongoing Winston Boogie Smith protests, killing Deona Marie Knajdek and injuring three others