Page 3 | Women protesting in front of Alameda County Courthouse attacked!

Helleofabore · 2022-12-06T11:06:06+00:00

This seems to be the new norm. A pie in the face and destruction of signs. And it looks like the bike might have bumped into the person taking the video on the way through to snatch the sign. And it looks like it was only one or two people attacking them in a quick 'snatch and grab' action. But their violence was clear. https://twitter.com/ReduxxMag/status/1599852773809750017?s=20&t=00dZ3FNXiMKS560z-h8HOg For those without twitter. The tweets accompanying the video is: ^BREAKING: Women with WDI_USA were just attacked by black-clad trans activists in California.^ ^The women were confronted and had a sign stolen while peacefully demonstrating against the placement of males in female prisons.^ ^Police have been contacted.^ ^The women had gathered outside of the Alameda County Courthouse in response to the trial of Dana Rivers, a prominent trans activist who was recently convicted in the murder of a family.^ ^Rivers may be placed in a women's prison.^ ^READ: https://bit.ly/3Vx2J4p^ Thank you to all the brave women who protest in front of these prisons and court houses to protect female inmates. I am sorry that these women have been attacked. Obviously for using words that cause hurt feelings in this case.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 07/12/2022 20:21

I do hope people who feel we must dismiss women's concerns about attacks on women because other groups get it much much worse are also going to dismiss trans day of remembrance and challenge the priorities of those protesting violence against trans people because the rate of violence and murder perpetrated on female people by male, or on black people by white, or on children by adults, is several orders of magnitude higher.

Because to do otherwise would be dreadfully hypocritical wouldn't it?

Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 20:02

GrinitchSpinach · 07/12/2022 19:25

Doubtful, since anti-woman activists are taking credit for the assault and have published photos of themselves burning the banner they stole:

www.indybay.org/newsitems/2022/12/07/18853301.php

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Well. They are proud of themselves aren’t they?

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nilsmousehammer · 07/12/2022 19:47

Hawkins001 · 07/12/2022 18:56

First and foremost my sympathies.

could this have been staged to give a boost to the protesters cause ?

😂

Oh God. Do you laugh or cry?

If we can't make it ok for men to abuse and beat up women (for daring to say they don't want men to abuse and beat up women) can we at least imply that the women staged it themselves?

How does that song go.... if the facts don't fit my narrative, I'll just believe alternatives cos otherwise my brain will blow up...

GrinitchSpinach · 07/12/2022 19:25

Hawkins001 · 07/12/2022 18:56

First and foremost my sympathies.

could this have been staged to give a boost to the protesters cause ?

Doubtful, since anti-woman activists are taking credit for the assault and have published photos of themselves burning the banner they stole:

www.indybay.org/newsitems/2022/12/07/18853301.php

Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 19:04

Hawkins001 · 07/12/2022 18:56

First and foremost my sympathies.

could this have been staged to give a boost to the protesters cause ?

I do not believe so. I don’t think the women involved would attempt to stage this at all. Why would you think so?

What has convinced you that this is a possibility?

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Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 19:03

Just to be clear onnabug.

You have no idea what I think about the violence of protests outside these small feminist rallies, because I have chosen to not discuss them with you.

I don’t believe anyone else on this thread has chosen to either.

Because you are the only person discussing them in an attempt to minimize the violence against women speaking.

I don’t believe one reasonable person would think that my opinion of violence would be any different regarding any protest that have turned violent. You accusations really have become absurd lately.

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Hawkins001 · 07/12/2022 18:56

First and foremost my sympathies.

could this have been staged to give a boost to the protesters cause ?

334bu · 07/12/2022 18:54

Quite a way to express your hate of women by advocating for violent male offenders to be imprisoned with female prisoners. Rape as punishment for being female must really delight men who hate women

Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 18:47

GrinitchSpinach · 07/12/2022 17:54

The man on the bicycle struck two women, and the person with the umbrella struck a woman. Stop minimizing this as just "lobbing food."

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The language used is absolutely at odds with being concerned with any level of violence against women.

'lobbing food' is just the latest minimisation. It totally counters the any acknowledgement at all.

It is bizarre behaviour.

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Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 18:44

334bu · 07/12/2022 17:51

Why do these men think that a violent male prisoner should be sent to a female prison they must obviously hate women ?

When you have convinced yourself that males can be females 334, you can convince yourself that they no longer have male patterns of crime. Even if they are in prison for just that crime.

There is no logic to it.

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Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 18:42

Sorry, not just hyperbole, but the attempt at emotional manipulation.

When you realise a poster relies only on that, you cannot unsee it.

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Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 18:41

I think it would only be worse if someone went so far as to compare themselves to the women protesting in Iran.

And your hyperbole is off the scale.

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Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 18:39

This thread is and continues to be about the violence that small groups of women face when meeting in public in both the USA and the UK.

My points still stand if that’s your new focus, and not the focus on the one small protest in California met with a cream pie and eggs. Your points only make sense if you still ignore and dismiss out of hand the greater violence done especially to minority women when they meet in public in the US…and presumably in the U.K. too.

There is no new focus. You wish to make it a new focus to the broader subject of violence at any USA protest. I do not.

And no. My point doesn't just make sense if I ignore and dismiss out of hand the great violence.

YOU are the only one here who is putting violence against women in some kind of hierarchy. I believe you tried to do that previously too.

I have made no hierarchy. An act of violence is an act of violence and should be considered so.

Unlike your promotion of merely 'asking a question to a child or a teen' as being 'confrontation', 'attack', 'harassment' and 'abuse'.

Your tactics are transparent here.

And there is no line to answer another poster, as I have said it is all violence and it is all unacceptable. It is only @Helleofabore that is completely dismissing violence. She’s dismissed the woman maced by another woman at a Tacoma protest as “self defence” when it wasn’t, and she has now doubled down dismissed all the violence including fatal violence done to especially minority women gathering for peaceful protests in the US by now being outraged I’ve “brought race” into the discussion.

And I have not dismiss violence at all. Despite your attempts to bring it into this conversation. This is not a gotcha. It is a very weak attempt to distort the truth.

I have not ventured an opinion on the wider violence of USA protests as you have brought them into this thread as an attempt to silence discussion. You know it and I frankly don't care that you try to portray me as 'dismissing violence' because you have chosen to utilise any other person's harm as some kind of sick "gotcha.'

It is YOU who is politicising the harm and the violence towards others for your own purpose.

What part of my earlier posts would make anyone else think that I was 'doubling down' on dismissing violence. Really? Point out exactly what I have posted that would indicate that I am dismissing violence rather than just attempting to maintain the focus of this thread?

And while you are at it, could you please explain again why you believe that any feminist should be discounting the acts of violence that women peacefully protesting about the prioritisation of sex based rights in both the USA and the UK have experienced?

I suppose it’s only white feminists that matter to her and she should probably edit her OP to be clear that it’s only violence that white feminists encounter when gathering in the US & U.K. that she is concerned about.

I don't need to edit my OP. You have built a might fine straw man here that you are burning to the ground. As I said before, you are speaking bollocks.

You have broadened the scope of this thread to suit your political agenda and then attempted to use that to silence women you disagree with.

You are dishonest in your posts as usual.

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Original poster

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 18:20

I am going to break this into two posts.

Your post a was about one protest in California, which is in the USA. It wasn’t about the US & U.K. at all.

My OP was about the protest in California. It is pretty clear from the following posts that I then included the UK as well.

In fact, by the time you posted on this thread, I was already discussing UK protests.

Your attempts to broaden the scope of this thread to 'general USA protests', was never the scope of this thread. Again, if you want to discuss 'general USA protests' please start your own thread. I am discussing specifically women's rallies that have been held by SFW or WDI USA.

It was peaceful by US standards as no one was injured. I’ve not said every protest is met with violence at all. I have said that on average, US protests tend to be more violent than the protest you are pretending was a “new norm” and “of concern” due to “violence” implying what happened at this one protest was far more violent than average..when it is not.

I am very clearly not talking about the 'average' US protest. I don't know how to make it clearer. Your attempts to broaden this to include horrific events at protests in the USA is simply distraction. And a way for you to attempt to shame people to simply disagree with you.

*I am bringing race into it because the optics of your initial posts are tone deaf to imply cream pies and eggs are some “new norm” of heightened violence because doing so erases the much greater violence that minority protesters have faced and continue to face in the USA. It reeks of white feminism tbh.(

No. You are bringing race into this. I have not discussed race of either the women or the protestors. And yes. I was quite clearly speaking about the current spate of violence towards women speaking at rallies in both the USA and the UK. It is you who are attempting to bring the wider scope of violent protests in, and linking it to Black Lives Matter for your own political agenda.

I am not discussing race related issues. I am discussing this from a feminist perspective. I am not seeking to erase any violence. I am referring to small gatherings of women, of any background being attacked by males for speaking out. If you want, I am very happy to also discuss Aja's attack and the racist dismissal of it when Aja had glitter thrown at her at the Brighton event.

It is bizarre the lengths you will go to in the attempt to shame women who don't agree with you.

It’s not dismissing violence to state that cream pies and eggs are not as violent as being punched until unconscious, maced, shot and killed or rammed by a car and killed. You however DID dismiss all the violence that has caused injury and death at numerous peaceful protests in the USA by pretending they didnt exist in your initial posts.

I did not dismiss all the violence caused in other protests at all. I simply stated that they were beyond the scope of the thread. Because that is a huge issue that encompasses so many critiques about that society that the intention about this thread would be lost. Which I believe is you intention.

I said that I was not discussing those wider issues. I have not given my opinion because it is irrelevant to this clearly narrower discussion.

Why do you imagine that I want to discuss all the issues relating to protesting anything in the USA? What relevance does this have to the Oakland protest, EXCEPT that you are using it to minimise what happened.

You have simply resorted to trying to portray anyone posting on this thread as being what? Bigoted? Because they didn't acknowledge all the other people that have been harmed by what seems to be a lack of any adequate policing and a nation-wide policy of allowing violent acts to be perpetuated during protests?

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nilsmousehammer · 07/12/2022 18:20

The message here from t hose men is that violent dangerous men should be allowed to be locked up with more women to assault if they want to, women should have no choice or voice in this, and if other women try to protect this man's future victims they will hit them until they stop arguing back.

On what planet is this anything but psychopathic?

I am baffled anyone could do anything to argue in defense of these violent thugs and their 'cause'.

GrinitchSpinach · 07/12/2022 17:54

Onnabugeisha · 07/12/2022 17:39

Obviously they support some level of VAWGs as they lobbed food at women. I guess to make a point they think Dana Rivers shouldn’t go to a mens prison as that’s what the women were demanding.

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The man on the bicycle struck two women, and the person with the umbrella struck a woman. Stop minimizing this as just "lobbing food."

334bu · 07/12/2022 17:51

Why do these men think that a violent male prisoner should be sent to a female prison they must obviously hate women ?

Onnabugeisha · 07/12/2022 17:39

334bu · 07/12/2022 17:14

Why are men attacking women protestibg outside a court where a male person is being sentenced foŕ killing 2 women and their son? Do these men support male violence against women?

Obviously they support some level of VAWGs as they lobbed food at women. I guess to make a point they think Dana Rivers shouldn’t go to a mens prison as that’s what the women were demanding.

334bu · 07/12/2022 17:14

Why are men attacking women protestibg outside a court where a male person is being sentenced foŕ killing 2 women and their son? Do these men support male violence against women?

Onnabugeisha · 07/12/2022 17:10

*towards the US. Typed too fast, in a hurry

Onnabugeisha · 07/12/2022 17:07

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 07/12/2022 11:00

Here is the newly-posted bodycam footage:

Those brave young men weren't messing, were they? That first egg, thrown with all his strength?!?! Such a brave use of the brolly and pushbike too!

FFS! and @Onnabugeisha wants us to do what? Acknowledge a whole heap of other stuff before we can settle to talk about the stuff we want to talk about!?!?!?

Pshaw!

It takes zero effort to acknowledge that the violence encountered was below the average for USA peaceful protests and that unlike many other peaceful protests, no one was injured or killed.

It takes more effort actually to argue that it was a “new norm” of violence and demand outrage from the US and U.K. government towards the U.K. for what happened. The “crickets chirping” is clearly saying why is no one expressing outrage.

I’m not saying don’t talk about it, it’s perfectly fine to talk about every protest and what happened at it. It’s ok to condemn all violence and call the cream pie and eggs out as unacceptable. What’s not ok is erasing the injuries and deaths of mostly minority peaceful protesters to construct a narrative of this protest being evidence of a fictional new norm of heightened violence that only now requires widespread outrage, and wondering why crickets are chirping. They’re chirping because on the scale of violence encountered at protests past and present, wounded pride is below the threshold for outrage from an American perspective.

I think it would only be worse if someone went so far as to compare themselves to the women protesting in Iran.

Onnabugeisha · 07/12/2022 16:50

Helleofabore · 07/12/2022 11:09

You have broadened the discussion to suit your own purposes.

My post was not about protests in general in the USA. And I do accept that there is violence associated with many protests in the USA.

Are you honestly trying to tell us, onnabug that ALL, every single woman's rally, in the USA has been met with violence in the past. Not large scale protests. But public gatherings of 10-30 women and every single time there has been violence?

Show us your evidence here.

Because you are again talking bollocks. And now you are bringing race into it.

Why? Why are you bringing race into it? There are women of every racial background at these events where women are speaking. I am not singling out just acts against white women.

And while you can continue to dismiss the eggs and the pies as 'not really that violent in the scheme of things' , yes. You absolutely are dismissing violent acts against women by minimising those acts.

Go start a thread about the wider environment of violence in the USA.

This thread is and continues to be about the violence that small groups of women face when meeting in public in both the USA and the UK.

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Your post a was about one protest in California, which is in the USA. It wasn’t about the US & U.K. at all.

It was peaceful by US standards as no one was injured. I’ve not said every protest is met with violence at all. I have said that on average, US protests tend to be more violent than the protest you are pretending was a “new norm” and “of concern” due to “violence” implying what happened at this one protest was far more violent than average..when it is not.

I am bringing race into it because the optics of your initial posts are tone deaf to imply cream pies and eggs are some “new norm” of heightened violence because doing so erases the much greater violence that minority protesters have faced and continue to face in the USA. It reeks of white feminism tbh.

It’s not dismissing violence to state that cream pies and eggs are not as violent as being punched until unconscious, maced, shot and killed or rammed by a car and killed. You however DID dismiss all the violence that has caused injury and death at numerous peaceful protests in the USA by pretending they didnt exist in your initial posts.

This thread is and continues to be about the violence that small groups of women face when meeting in public in both the USA and the UK.
My points still stand if that’s your new focus, and not the focus on the one small protest in California met with a cream pie and eggs. Your points only make sense if you still ignore and dismiss out of hand the greater violence done especially to minority women when they meet in public in the US…and presumably in the U.K. too.

And there is no line to answer another poster, as I have said it is all violence and it is all unacceptable. It is only @Helleofabore that is completely dismissing violence. She’s dismissed the woman maced by another woman at a Tacoma protest as “self defence” when it wasn’t, and she has now doubled down dismissed all the violence including fatal violence done to especially minority women gathering for peaceful protests in the US by now being outraged I’ve “brought race” into the discussion.

I suppose it’s only white feminists that matter to her and she should probably edit her OP to be clear that it’s only violence that white feminists encounter when gathering in the US & U.K. that she is concerned about.

nilsmousehammer · 07/12/2022 14:53

DevilinaCardigan · 07/12/2022 14:49

"Where shall we pop the line then?
Ok to throw food at women. Ok to spray them with water.
Spitting ok?
Can they push a bit if they don't actually hit?
How about hitting so long as they don't leave a mark?
How about red marks ok but no bruises?
How about beating them up is ok so long as no penetrating wounds/weapons used?
How about only NICE weapons, like truncheons/sticks as opposed to blades or guns?
What about if she's just left alive at the end of it?"

But remember, misgendering is LITERALLY violence.

I find it interesting the language from TRAs that words are literal violence, transphobes deny their existence, there's a trans genocide happening. It emboldens activists to act in violent ways. Well, it's self defense innt.

And a psychologist could explain in detail the pathology, disordered and dysfunctional thinking and the many, many issues underlying all this. They could write a bloody book on it.

Lundy Bancroft has written several.

DevilinaCardigan · 07/12/2022 14:49

"Where shall we pop the line then?
Ok to throw food at women. Ok to spray them with water.
Spitting ok?
Can they push a bit if they don't actually hit?
How about hitting so long as they don't leave a mark?
How about red marks ok but no bruises?
How about beating them up is ok so long as no penetrating wounds/weapons used?
How about only NICE weapons, like truncheons/sticks as opposed to blades or guns?
What about if she's just left alive at the end of it?"

But remember, misgendering is LITERALLY violence.

I find it interesting the language from TRAs that words are literal violence, transphobes deny their existence, there's a trans genocide happening. It emboldens activists to act in violent ways. Well, it's self defense innt.

nilsmousehammer · 07/12/2022 13:36

Where shall we pop the line then?

Ok to throw food at women. Ok to spray them with water.
Spitting ok?
Can they push a bit if they don't actually hit?
How about hitting so long as they don't leave a mark?
How about red marks ok but no bruises?
How about beating them up is ok so long as no penetrating wounds/weapons used?
How about only NICE weapons, like truncheons/sticks as opposed to blades or guns?
What about if she's just left alive at the end of it?

The utter hypocrisy of this being that if a female protesting about a murdering nutjob like this man being enabled to enjoy abusing and terrorising trapped females in a prison dared to throw water or food at a male who spake forth the magic words this would so unacceptable those defending injuring women to shut them up would be screaming from the rooftops about violence and danger and unsafe spaces. The hyperbole would be off the fucking charts.

I have reached the really grim conclusion that there are those who somehow get off on women being oppressed and harmed by men. This is how they get their jollies. I don't care why, I'm not interested: that's the kind of sewage a therapist gets paid to wade through. But I am utterly revolted by someone whose politics involves accepting (and enjoying) harm and oppression to one group to prove to the other group how very loved and supported they are. It is fucked up. It is wrong.

Women - we want answers that work equally for all with equal care and consideration to females

Activists - nothing will do except harmed women under the feet of men. And women accepting their place and role in being harmed for the greater good.