Girl Got A New Haircut. Father Shocked By The Things Strangers Now Say To Her.

Its a lot easier to mistake a female for a male than a child for an adult.

That's good to know. Which means the constant harassment I experienced from 11-16 from grown men wasn't the honest mistake they seemed to pretend it was. And these experiences formed my opinion that I'd rather my DD had some safe places without penises in them.

I do wonder if your concern for children's safety extends to girls safely using private spaces.

@Onnabugeisha

If this happened in the US, then you need to take the context into account.

The context being a very strident pro Trans lobby using everything they possibly can to discredit the GC opposition.

In other words, this alleged haircut and the toilet incidents may or may not have happened.

@RoseslnTheHospital

YYY to your post.

I look back at the unisex haircuts of the 70s and even the short hairstyles of the 90s and wonder what the heck has happened.

That reminds me, can anyone cover my shift for the ladies at Knutsford services next Sunday? I can leave the angry eyebrows at the newsagent kiosk.

So exactly how is a child of any threat to your safety? Why can’t you leave children alone and limit yourself to confronting any adults you think are males?

"Child" covers anyone from a toddler to a hulking 6'5 seventeen yr old with full beard. Prepubertal kids you probably wouldn't be able to tell, or I wouldn't.

By teen age some of DC's classmates were built like rugby players; they were rugby players indeed. They would be intimidating to teenaged or younger girls even if as mum I suspect they're still quite young and harmless. Of course it's okay to ask them if they'd gone in the wrong door.

If they're sweet and innocent like my 13 yr old they'd want to know so they can get out. If they're the creepy kid who wanted to peep under the cubicles (in my form at school aged 15ish) they should be challenged. Absolutely no way they are mistakeable for girls. If there was any doubt, i.e. prepubertal or very covered up, I wouldn't say anything. But mostly it's bleeding obvious and I don't mean hair length.

True. I was just a tad slow on this one.

*very much help

Still waiting for any kind of answer Onnabugeisha. It would very help the argument that this is not about stereotypes.

And while you're at it, can I ask why you think this is suddenly an issue? Short haired women have been using their own spaces since forever. Maybe challenged sometimes if people make a mistake.

So what? Why is it suddenly news? And why is it suddenly terrible, instead of irritating?

There has been a few usernames in the past that are female anime characters that have used the same tactics as this poster does.

Oh, ffs. Do you actually know any women?

My mother in law isn't a feminist of any description, doesn't know what gender is and has never heard the term gender critical.

She would definitely challenge any male in the ladies without even thinking.

She is, without doubt, representative of most women.

Women generally know why a male wants to access women in the ladies. Gender critical woman know how they're doing it.

That's why you're talking directly to them.

Oh, and by the way, it's a complete waste of time. Perhaps you should have noticed by now that women being told to stfu by randoms online, only makes them talk louder.

I'm slow off the mark, I know, but Onna Bugeisha - female martial artist. Where they all trans do you think? Or have they been Manga'd into acceptably trans stereotypes?

Then again, surely Onna Musha would be more stereotypically female?

Sorry, I'll pop off that trangent! [yes, I know]

I am still stuck on this:

"faux innocent denial that this is happening and squashes the past five pages of devotees pushing the narrative that it’s got nothing to do with GC beliefs."

What is it that many people here believe?

That males cannot be females?
That males should respect the needs of all females and stay out of single sex spaces even if they identify as a woman, because they are male still and never are they going to be a female? (and by the way, we know there are transitioned males who DO respect female's needs and DO stay out of female single sex spaces)
That people should present themselves however they wish and that doesn't impact their gender identity?
That females with short hair are NOT males?
That the majority of the world's population are not trans and they are also not feminists, yet will believe the first two statements? Yet OP insists that anyone who would question a person in a toilet MUST be a feminist.
That people should not show aggressive behaviour towards a child who is using the toilets unless that child is about to do something that is harmful to others?

What OP is trying to convince readers of is that

-only feminists would be asking children or teen's if they were in the wrong toilet

-to question politely is an act of confrontation

-to question at all is an act of hate

-that it is feminist's fault that anyone questions a child or teen in the toilet and that everyone should ignore that girls with short hair have always been questioned entering into the female toilets

-that the males who made these demands, that were accepted without any consultation with females, are in no way to blame for women and girls feeling even more less secure in their toilets and single sex spaces

-that people who want laws and policies to support the prioritisation of sex in all areas that matter over gender are 'ideological', and those beliefs are controversial and seemingly not based in science that has been known for millennia and proven for centuries or in facts and statistics used for safeguarding

-that females do not have a high degree of probability of knowing a person's sex by looking at them, seeing them walk and listening to them speak

-that feminists embrace gender stereotypes and actually use those 'stereotypes' to predict the sex of people.

Have I got that right Onnabugeisha?

Is that what you are trying to convince readers of?

Not sure if this is relevant but, some fortunate(?) 'teenagers' can be pretty old. My sister would loose her job if she doesn't verify the age of people who look under 25 yo.

Fuck! I have walked into or just about walked into the male toilet by accident too many times to count

future son in law walked into the ladies the other day….we had to leave the bar he was so mortified 😀😀😀

it was a cuban bar and he got his senorita, senor and senora confused

I wonder if OP has much contact with teenagers. I think we are beginning to hear from the current teenaged girls that they most definitely don't want to use toilets with any males in them.

But they're on the wrong side of the 'power balance' all ways - less power (literally) than a male, disempowered from voicing their concerns.

Squirrel!

Did @Onnabugeisha ever come back with the top 3 ways a male can know he’s a woman or is the squirrel pointing still continuing?

OP also doesn't think that women and girls are deserving of dignity and privacy away from pubescent males either.

I wonder if OP has much contact with teenagers. I think we are beginning to hear from the current teenaged girls that they most definitely don't want to use toilets with any males in them.

Yet, OP seems happy that in a public toilet that no female should have privacy away from a male that is x years old (depending on what this OP is wanting to call teenaged or child).

So much so, they have continued to attempt to twist people's words. And they seem to honestly believe that a polite query is a 'confrontation' that is going to be damaging to that teenager. I know that our teens have poor mental health, but seriously, if a teenager really cannot have an adult politely ask them this question, I would be asking who the fuck is telling teenagers that this question is 'confrontation' and that they have been seriously harmed by being asked a perfectly reasonable and polite question. When it is just as probable that the person who a feminist or a mother of a current teen perceives as a male, is in fact a male, and may well be in the wrong toilet.

Fuck! I have walked into or just about walked into the male toilet by accident too many times to count. Why is this a 'rare' thing that no teen ever does so therefore it cannot ever be anything but hate?

Some serious distorting here that I cannot believe any reader will not see.

Right. I have quote back on my browser.

I think it is blindingly clear by now that you have a deep prejudice against people on this board who disagree with you.

"Sort of goes against the faux innocent denial that this is happening and squashes the past five pages of devotees pushing the narrative that it’s got nothing to do with GC beliefs."

I suspect that you don't understand where the point of view that many of the posters on this board comes from. It comes from labelling people as 'gender critical' and trying to box it all up as beliefs. a) we are not an echo chamber and b) we are not a hive mind.

We don't all think alike, but we might share a number of points of views.

However, the attempt to also portray the combination of scientific fact and accepted societal norms as controversial and 'ideological' is laughable.

Scientific fact = that people cannot change sex

Societal norm and expectation = that females need single sex spaces for their safety and dignity and toilets are one of these, and there is a very long history of data to reflect why women and girls need these spaces. Therefore males should keep out of those spaces.

'Devotees'. Really? That is the best you can do?

Sort of goes against the faux innocent denial that this is happening and squashes the past five pages of devotees pushing the narrative that it’s got nothing to do with GC beliefs

Are you some sort of idiot?
All poodles are dogs, not all dogs are poodles. GC women might police womens toilets to keep men out, that doesn't mean anyone asking a girl if she's a boy is GC. Like you've been told, GC people are more likley to be able to tell a boy from a girl, but lets be honest, almost all of us can do it with ease.

If we ask someone if they are in the wrong toilets, its incredibly likely that they are.

You're confusing yourself, btw. Are you talking about children or teenagers? Teenagers can be adults. 15-16 year old boys can be dangerous.

Why are you so obsessed with telling us to not object to obvious males in the womens toilets? Why not tell us that?

Because 'quote' has disappeared on my browser I will do it this way.

"Right, so you are GC and you do police womens toilets, including for any children who do not look like a girl to you."

"Sort of goes against the faux innocent denial that this is happening and squashes the past five pages of devotees pushing the narrative that it’s got nothing to do with GC beliefs."

Again, you are the one poster here that is twisting a simple query into a hateful act. Not anyone else here. Just you .

Why are you doing that?

There is a big difference from asking the question 'Do you mean to be in the female toilets?' to 'confronting' a teenager.

You seek to make this into a catastrophic event. I think we can now see that you have changed the definition to 'confronting' to incorporate polite query.

"Its a lot easier to mistake a female for a male than a child for an adult. So, since as a pp devotee claimed “GC feminists are better than average at telling sex”- I’m sure this superiority in observational skills extends to telling who is an adult and who is a child as well."

We are talking about teens here. Teens. Now, as a 20 something, I was mistaken for a teen. I know many young women who also have been asked for ID. However, as a teen of 15, I was also never asked for ID because I dressed as an adult and had the attitude of an adult because I was working full time with adults.

You are talking absolute bollocks.

And yes, because I am also a mother to a teen and spend a huge amount of time with teens, I am probably pretty fucking likely to be able to work out the sex of a teen unless they were a very young child put on puberty blockers.

"So exactly how is a child of any threat to your safety? Why can’t you leave children alone and limit yourself to confronting any adults you think are males?"

Oh... so again we are back to 'child'. Convenient twist of language.

And again, you have contorted 'politely enquire' to 'confrontation'.

It is clear you are using cognitive distortions to attempt to convince people because you don't seem to be able to provide anything else except emotional manipulation.

But nice that you gave me permission to ask an adult male whether they should be in the female single sex space. I appreciate your kind gesture.

Aye. But watch out for babes in arms... They can be the very devil!

Right, so you are GC OOh! Please miss, can I be HD? Please..

and you do police womens toilets, including for any children who do not look like a girl to you. Again. Men. Women have the right to tell men to fuck offf outr of female spaces. Why are you devoting so much time to refuting that?

Sort of goes against the faux innocent denial that this is happening and squashes the past five pages of devotees pushing the narrative that it’s got nothing to do with GC beliefs. No idea what that actually means though I can guess what you think it means! Devotees?!?!?!

Its a lot easier to mistake a female for a male than a child for an adult. So, since as a pp devotee claimed “GC feminists are better than average at telling sex”- I’m sure this superiority in observational skills extends to telling who is an adult and who is a child as well.
Ye gods! It is winter. People are wearing heavy coats, hats, scarves. Look out of your window. No matter what the age you will be able to identify the sex of the people walking passed. You will rarely have a doubt, especially if they are in motion, and will very rarely be wrong. Think about that honestly! Why do all humans beings have that ability?

So exactly how is a child of any threat to your safety? Why can’t you leave children alone and limit yourself to confronting any adults you think are males? Mmm! Safeguarding? Being mothers, grandmothers, sisters, human beings? Lots of reasons. All perfectly logical.

Unlike your diatribes, and choices of 'proofs' here!

@Onnabugeisha - Dolatowski was still a teenager when he brutally sexually assaulted two girls in women's toilets.

Damn right I'm going to police them. And if that upsets a couple of teenage girls with short hair, so be it (although I've never seen a teenage girl who looks like a boy). Id rather take the risk of a teenager being slightly offended than put any more children at risk of violent sexual attacks.

On what planet do all kids with short hair look like boys? I never have any trouble telling girls from boys, whatever hair they have. Does anyone, really?

Occasionally, with prepubescent children. It rarely matters too much which sex they are so 'confrontation' isn't necessary.