Page 4 | Detransitioners: put the fatted calf away please.

TinselAngel · 2022-12-03T10:40:34+00:00

For some time I have been predicting that when our exes begin to detransition it will result in just another round of attention and sympathy causing further silencing of trans widows https://www.theblaze.com/news/former-transgender-navy-seal-announces-de-transition-says-he-was-propagandized-and-pulled-into-a-cult-everyone-is-converting-all-these-kids-into-transgender#toggle-gdpr 100% the usual AGP story, tried on sisters clothes in adolescence, got married, had kids, successful career, late transitioner yada yada yada https://profilesinpride.com/kristin-beck-coming-out-as-transgender-navy-seal/ If detransitioners are serious about atoning for the damage they have done to themselves and others,they need to have a long and serious period of reflection and learning. Swapping the affirmation of one side of the debate for the other does nobody any favours. Least of all us. And we as a movement need to help this by being circumspect in our treatment of detransitioners and not acting like the love bombing cult that they claim to have left. We would also do well to remember the binge and purge cycle that all wives of cross dressers are familiar with, and consider that if (when) this carries over in to “detransition”, their detransitioning is likely to at best, fluctuate. So put the fatted calf away please. Misogyny is still misogyny, fetishes are still fetishes, narcissism is still narcissism and none of these are magically cured in five minutes. This is why, at Trans Widows Voices we have to hold the line, and take a position that people on “our side” have already called “harsh” and “cruel”.If we laud one detransitioner as not like the other boys, we dismiss validity of the stories of the women and children in their past Many people have slowly realised that we were right when we told them that their platforming and lauding of so called “reasonable transexual allies” excluded women, and sure enough those allies proceeded to gradually show us exactly who they are. For the love of the goddess let’s not make the same mistake twice.

Helleofabore · 03/12/2022 17:37

I tend to agree that there seems to be a jump from one group to another. When the reality is probably that they need lots of time to deal with their issues and given time in general.

And that there will be similarities between the two groups as adults.

Do you think there is a way to support those detransitioners and trans widows?

WomaninBoots · 03/12/2022 17:27

You make good points Tinsel.

BellaAmorosa · 03/12/2022 17:00

nilsmousehammer · 03/12/2022 16:30

I'll also add that at this point we have a lot of bitter experience that anything set up to meet the needs of female people (and considering that transitioners have been statistically the massive majority they are likely to form the majority of detransitioners too) will very quickly find a group of male people shouldering their way to the front and demanding that all resources, attention and care are refocused to them. And if that bounces females out of the service, well they're only females. I would expect resources for detransitioning females to be hit this way too.

💯
I wanted to use the bullseye emoji but as usual I don't know how to find it! 😂

BellaAmorosa · 03/12/2022 16:57

TinselAngel · 03/12/2022 16:43

I think that while males and females transition and detransition for very different reasons there are some similarities in how we should respond to detransitioners of both sexes.

I was at the launch of the (I think now defunct?) Detransitioners Advocacy Network back in 2019. Of the young female detransitioners who spoke there I know of two that he retransitioned.

This is one of them:

twitter.com/TobyJPick/status/1588534315721584640?s=20&t=ns1-h8ove1VU4rO1Gdm3mw

My experience of listening to female detransitioners is that they have much to learn from us, rather than the other way around. I've also noticed them hopping from one gang (trans) for another (GC) with no period of reflection in between. We don't do them any favours in enabling them to do this because it discourages them from reflecting on what it was about them that got them into the mess in the first place.

I also worry that we still have heard virtually nothing from lesbian trans widows who undoubtedly do exist. The detransitioners need to reflect on what if any damage they have caused to partners, just like our exes should.

Here's one lesbian trans widows story

www.transwidowsvoices.org/post/lizs-story

Sheila Jeffreys was talking about lesbian trans widows in in Gender Hurts in 2014, it's not something I'm just making up.

Thanks, @TinselAngel That's what I was after.

I note the reminder about lesbian transwidows. That must feel like a double (triple?) betrayal - of the relationship, of being an out lesbian and being a woman.
Clumsily expressed but I hope you understand me.

beastlyslumber · 03/12/2022 16:45

Yes, agree with all this.

I care about girls who detransition and children in general. Grown men who transition and detransition are of no interest to me and I couldn't care less about them! Sorry not sorry.

Original poster

TinselAngel · 03/12/2022 16:45

they will no doubt be at the bottom of the pile in getting any support when they finally realise what's been done to them.

Trans widows will be beneath them in the pile.

OP posts:

Original poster

TinselAngel · 03/12/2022 16:43

I think that while males and females transition and detransition for very different reasons there are some similarities in how we should respond to detransitioners of both sexes.

I was at the launch of the (I think now defunct?) Detransitioners Advocacy Network back in 2019. Of the young female detransitioners who spoke there I know of two that he retransitioned.

This is one of them:

twitter.com/TobyJPick/status/1588534315721584640?s=20&t=ns1-h8ove1VU4rO1Gdm3mw

My experience of listening to female detransitioners is that they have much to learn from us, rather than the other way around. I've also noticed them hopping from one gang (trans) for another (GC) with no period of reflection in between. We don't do them any favours in enabling them to do this because it discourages them from reflecting on what it was about them that got them into the mess in the first place.

I also worry that we still have heard virtually nothing from lesbian trans widows who undoubtedly do exist. The detransitioners need to reflect on what if any damage they have caused to partners, just like our exes should.

Here's one lesbian trans widows story

www.transwidowsvoices.org/post/lizs-story

Sheila Jeffreys was talking about lesbian trans widows in in Gender Hurts in 2014, it's not something I'm just making up.

OP posts:

MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/12/2022 16:39

A powerful post tinsel. But please let's never abandon the thousands of children, teenagers and young adults who have been gaslit by these toxic groups and adults. We have collectively failed to safeguard them from harm and as nils pointed out, they will no doubt be at the bottom of the pile in getting any support when they finally realise what's been done to them.

nilsmousehammer · 03/12/2022 16:32

sorry, that should say in the massive majority FEMALE

nilsmousehammer · 03/12/2022 16:30

I'll also add that at this point we have a lot of bitter experience that anything set up to meet the needs of female people (and considering that transitioners have been statistically the massive majority they are likely to form the majority of detransitioners too) will very quickly find a group of male people shouldering their way to the front and demanding that all resources, attention and care are refocused to them. And if that bounces females out of the service, well they're only females. I would expect resources for detransitioning females to be hit this way too.

Blister · 03/12/2022 16:19

@WearyLady "And without acknowledgement of the hurt done to you, do you still want this person as a friend"

It was a friendship. These are always difficult to lose... but honestly, I think the friendship isn't worth saving. I think it'll go back to being one sided just there'll be no issue to show the one-sided-ness

Helleofabore · 03/12/2022 16:15

nilsmousehammer · 03/12/2022 14:29

Certainly uncomfortable, yes, and that's a hallmark of actual safeguarding - nothing is so bad it can't be talked about.

I see a significant difference though between men detransitioning following an adult transition - and yes, having received all the support and attention and listening and nurture one way into the process there will be those who'll prove the next wave of it through detransitioning, where the process/action is what gets the need met - and what I am afraid is going to be a wave of distraught young women who were the ones caught up in this as it swept through schools cheered on by the likes of Mermaids and 'allies'.

As we've seen already from several brave enough to speak out, this group is likely to include young women with badly damaged bodies, damaged health, lost fertility and chance for children and family, and the emotional harm of the trauma and anger of suffering all this from adults who should have been able to be the adult in the situation. Love bombing; no. Women don't treat other women like that much; look on the relationships board any time to see the tough love and expectations women hold for other women going through hell. But certainly I'm grimly prepared to help with whatever resources or funding or legal cases those women may come to need. They will get no help at all from the TQ+ politically controlled groups.

Yes. This.

I made sure that I noted it in this consultation submission that closes tomorrow that those young people detransitioning need as much support as possible from clinicians.

I have watched with great concern the tweets from Sinead Watson this month. She is so bravely trying but she needs help herself. I have been thinking about the solution, I am hoping that Dr Cass will force the clinics to have ample services for them.

There are many things we can learn from the experiences of these young people as to how to support them. I see them as different to the mature aged male transitioners.

Do you tinsel?

BellaAmorosa · 03/12/2022 15:56

@TinselAngel
i saw your tweet.
Haven't rtft but can I ask do you distinguish between male and female detransitioners? Or between detransing males with internalised homophobia and those who have what I euphemistcally describe as a Special Interest?

ErrolTheDragon · 03/12/2022 15:46

I’ve got to say, I love the way you give me a good slap around the face to bring me to my senses when I start to become emotionally manipulated.

Definitely!

I agree with @nilsmousehammer re the gulf between this sort of man and some of the young women - Kiera Bell is the obvious example. She seems pretty clear eyed about the failings of the system for young people, while taking responsibility for her own 'brashness'. 'Love bombing', no - practical support to help highlight the issues and hopefully rectify them, yes.

Thelnebriati · 03/12/2022 14:52

Excellent post. Thank you again TinselAngel, its not just that you have the guts to speak out, but that you have the ability to analyse the situation so clearly in the first place.
I can't speak freely here so will leave it at that.

BordoisAgain · 03/12/2022 14:34

None of this help and support should come at the detriment of the transwidows and it should never fuel the narc supply of the males who have already left a trail of harm

Always4Brenner · 03/12/2022 14:31

At last a brilliant post that shows the damage people go through when jumping on the band wagon.

nilsmousehammer · 03/12/2022 14:29

Certainly uncomfortable, yes, and that's a hallmark of actual safeguarding - nothing is so bad it can't be talked about.

I see a significant difference though between men detransitioning following an adult transition - and yes, having received all the support and attention and listening and nurture one way into the process there will be those who'll prove the next wave of it through detransitioning, where the process/action is what gets the need met - and what I am afraid is going to be a wave of distraught young women who were the ones caught up in this as it swept through schools cheered on by the likes of Mermaids and 'allies'.

As we've seen already from several brave enough to speak out, this group is likely to include young women with badly damaged bodies, damaged health, lost fertility and chance for children and family, and the emotional harm of the trauma and anger of suffering all this from adults who should have been able to be the adult in the situation. Love bombing; no. Women don't treat other women like that much; look on the relationships board any time to see the tough love and expectations women hold for other women going through hell. But certainly I'm grimly prepared to help with whatever resources or funding or legal cases those women may come to need. They will get no help at all from the TQ+ politically controlled groups.

WearyLady · 03/12/2022 14:16

Blister · 03/12/2022 12:32

Oh an uncomfortable conversation. Yes!

Well I'm avoiding thinking of it...

I think a friend of mine is detransitioning. On the one hand I struggle to forgive this individual for the abuse of my trust and for insulting my intelligence but then again what's the point of bearing a grudge?

One thing I can't do is pretend it never happened... but there's a need for some brushing under the carpet so we can move on...

I'm conflicted... they found it so easy to throw me under the bus and dismiss my views and see me as evil. I feel like a pushover.

Has your friend ever apologised for the hurt they caused you? If not, how can they expect you to resume your friendship? And without acknowledgement of the hurt done to you, do you still want this person as a friend?

Original poster

TinselAngel · 03/12/2022 13:24

I've had years of practice of being emotionally manipulated myself!

OP posts:

EndlessTea · 03/12/2022 13:06

TinselAngel · 03/12/2022 11:06

I've copied it over from my twitter, if it sounds a bit grandiose.

Hey Tinsel, I’ve literally just read your post on Twitter and came here to see if there was any comment.

I’ve got to say, I love the way you give me a good slap around the face to bring me to my senses when I start to become emotionally manipulated.

I don’t think you get enough credit for the valuable service you provide on that front!

ForeverFaithless · 03/12/2022 13:05

Hmmm
Food for thought, certainly the love bombing thing makes me very uncomfortable.

Yarnosaura · 03/12/2022 12:58

Well said Tinsel

ArabellaScott · 03/12/2022 12:38

All good points, Tinsel.

MoirasSaggyBundles · 03/12/2022 12:38

Great post.

Many people have slowly realised that we were right when we told them that their platforming and lauding of so called “reasonable transexual allies” excluded women, and sure enough those allies proceeded to gradually show us exactly who they are.

And this is why I cannot get on board with certain prominent GC figures who insist on force teaming me with Hayton, Cohn and other similar men.