Taxpayers should pay £40 million for trans men to have penises fitted abroad to bypass NHS waiting lists

This.

The taxpayer should not be funding surgery for transpeople, especially as the surgery takes a healthy body and replaces it with a body that will have health problems for life.

The descriptions from Scott and Gabriel are horrifying, and I think if that sort of detail were part of the mainstream conversation an awful lot of people would start thinking much harder about all of this.

The trouble is that to find those stories, you have to go looking. General articles that form the basis of the public discourse tend to use language much more like the piece in the OP. Having a penis 'fitted' or evern 'surgically attached' sounds so easy. Clean, simple, just clip it on and away you go.

And if it's simple to fit - like a shoe, or at most like a prosthetic leg - then it's easy to assume it is also simple to undo if someone changes their mind. So why worry if young people are rushing into it?

The framing directs the conversation down entirely the wrong path.

Having read the links provided by@PurgatoryOfPotholes why would the nhs even want to open themselves up to the legal cases this is going to cause to happen, because let's be honest very very few of the women having these ops are going to be happy with the end result.

It's not a quick in and out just rest for a week then everything will be fine type op.

And I'd bet money the same girls wanting this are the same ones who parents are still buying them liquid paracetamol because they don't like swallowing tablets, and the same ones that go all faint at the thought of a blood test or a covid swab.

That'll teach me to read the full thread...

a nonbinary

What the hell did they need a penis for?

Couldn't agree more. I used to think there was a place for gender reassignment surgery for a tiny minority of adults with persistent and crippling gender dysphoria, but no longer. Not on the NHS. Dangerous, very low clinical success rate, not effective at treating dysphoria. If people want to fund it themselves, so be it, although I think it should be banned altogether for anyone under 25.

Yes, exactly. Or it's a rite of passage.

Seeing how complicated the surgery is, I'm amazed that it ever goes right.

It is absolute insanity to cause so much damage to a person deliberately. How much therapy would it take to get a person accepting themselves as a woman who is "gender non-conforming" (I mean.... whatever the heck that means anyway)? Not that much. (If there wasn't the incessant trans cult brainwashing going around anyway.). Compared to the hours and hours of horror and pain and complete mutilation of a healthy body? Followed probably by therapy to come to terms with the damage done.

It is insane.

These stories from people that have been experimented on while thinking they are getting ‘treatment’ are horrific.
And the NHS should have nothing to do with this gaslighting of vulnerable patients whatsoever. These surgeries are way too dangerous physically and mentally and what is all that risk actually to achieve? You can’t ever change your biological sex. You can’t ever have female or male sexual function or sensation with a surgically constructed roll of flesh as a ‘penis’. This is just heartbreaking. More support and more therapy for vulnerable people but the NHS should never provide or fund others to provide this risky experimentation on vulnerable people.

Scott's description

"During my own transition, I had seven surgeries. I also had a massive pulmonary embolism, a helicopter life-flight ride, an emergency ambulance ride, a stress-induced heart attack, sepsis, a 17-month recurring infection due to using the wrong skin during a (failed) phalloplasty, 16 rounds of antibiotics, three weeks of daily IV antibiotics, the loss of all my hair, (only partially successful) arm reconstructive surgery, permanent lung and heart damage, a cut bladder, insomnia-induced hallucinations—oh and frequent loss of consciousness due to pain from the hair on the inside of my urethra. All this led to a form of PTSD that made me a prisoner in my apartment for a year. Between me and my insurance company, medical expenses exceeded $900,000," Scott writes.

"During these 17 months of agony, I couldn't get a urologist to help me. They didn't feel comfortable taking me on as a patient—since the phalloplasty, like much of the transition process, is experimental."

From Quillette

Managinggenzoclock

I worry so much what will happen when those who had these kind of appalling surgeries done ‘wake up’ to what they have been able to do to themselves and that no one who should have known better, stopped it from happening.

That reminds me of Scott Newgent's posts. Scott is another adult human female who went through phalloplasty, but Scott's procedures went much more badly than Gabriel's. Now Scott is dedicating their life to calling out medical transition. I'll post the details of how it went wtong in another post.

extract

The road to medical transition had plenty of warning signs. Each time the doubt arose, I reached out to professionals to help me figure out what would be best for my life. As I look back, I realize their influence over my journey, and I recognize the power these two therapists not just held but still hold over my life because medical transition? It's not reversible; the decision to transition medically cannot be undone.

When I think of these conversations now, my blood boils because I recognize that if these conversations went differently? I might have made the right decision, the decision not to medically transition. I realize now that not transitioning was the right choice, yet I live the wrong decision. The bad decision and the responsibility of these therapists? It feels criminal like they need to be held accountable for what they pushed. I realize that will never happen. But what I can do? I can walk you through how to make a different decision if you are in the quandary I was.

I listen with an open heart, piercing tongue, and take my words and SCREAM Louder with all my love.

Scott

(Continues)

Lord knows I will never get the chance, but I wonder how these two therapists would take my new responses? If they knew that what they were pushing for would result in my life being cut short, knowing my kids would not have me for the period parents are supposed to be here. Knowing the health issues I still face and will face for life, would their response change? Their encouragement initiated a long line of suffering from generation to generation for many connected to me, not just me.

I wish I were able to go back to each pivotal point and react differently. If I could, here is what I would say to the therapists pushing me to transition medically.
The first therapist (A Trans Woman) asked me, "So, how long have you been dressing in male clothing?"

My initial response was silence with the realization that she was right; I was born in the wrong body. I instantly became embarrassed for missing something that seemed so apparent to her. My response now, after the journey I have taken.....or shall I say...endured.

Today, this is how I would respond:

"How dare you say something like that to someone who is gender-confused, projecting the idea that clothing magically makes someone male or female. As a trans woman, how dare you use your position as a therapist to justify your decision to have plastic surgery to create an illusion of a woman. Your desire and the key here is your desire to keep your delusion close forces people at vulnerable times in their lives to deal with your issues. How dare you!
"I do not have male clothes on; I have heels, lipstick, earrings, eyeliner, and a silk blouse with female slacks to a female business suit. Yes, I am a female business sales executive. Does that make me even more male that I dominate every man that ever tried to sustain my numbers? So tell me what precisely out of all the female attire I described makes me a biological male and proves I was born in the wrong body? Because from where I'm sitting? We need to change seats because you, yes, you "Big Boy", you are the one that needs serious help."

The second therapist responded to my concern and apprehension about going through the phalloplasty, the transman bottom surgery. "Scott, why wait? What's the difference in a month or two? You are correcting an error in your gender, and it's so brave you could be such an inspiration to younger trans."

Today I would say,

"An inspiration because I will be enduring an entirely cosmetic surgery that is experimental at best and has a 67% complications rate. I am an inspiration because I am brave enough to allow a surgeon who is banned from surgery in California to experiment on me with nine medical malpractice cases. It is an inspiration for not taking an extra year to understand this surgery and the absolute carnage it renders on every person who completes it. An inspiration?

"You out of line with that comment, and another thing? I don't give a rat's ass if I am an attractive man and someone you would be interested in if you met me on the street? That comment was out of line too, and someday soon? Therapists like you? The carnage will catch up with you. "

Trans Rational Voices website

Yes. It's real "descent into hell" stuff isn't it.

Excellent search-fu!

Found it - it was MNers discussing planned masculinising genital surgery services being opened at Chelsea and Westminster https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/nhsserviceeforprovisionnof_mas#incoming-2108473

This is heartbreaking and horrific. I am not anti trans people. I desperately want to protect vulnerable children (and adults too unless an extreme last resort) from this sort of experience. I worry so much what will happen when those who had these kind of appalling surgeries done ‘wake up’ to what they have been able to do to themselves and that no one who should have known better, stopped it from happening.

We can’t let people go through this.

yes that kind of thing!
It's as if they have surrendered themselves to the process and are now glorifying in the pain and horror, I think part of it may be that it aligns with the idea of having some kind of higher calling, an arduous initiation ceremony after which you become a new being, there are similar rituals around puberty for boys in some tribal cultures I think? There is some kind of symbolic death and then you are reborn. This kind of thing seems to align with that, I think it connects with unconscious archetypes and that's part of the mechanism via which the patients are drawn in so that they commit themselves?

I'm sure I saw a discussion on here about a Tissue Viability Nurse being advertised for in relation to an NHS gender surgery service. I know most hospitals have these specialist nurses, but does each surgical department usually have their own?

Hysterectomy is sometimes clinically indicated for women as a last-ditch method when women's menstrual conditions are making normal life impossible. Yet the NHS is very reluctant to perform hysterectomies in such situations, because it is not a risk-free procedure at all. It requires general anaesthetic, constitutes major surgery and...carries the risk of post hysterectomy vaginal vault prolapse.

The terrifying thing is that when I speak to middle-aged women who've had hysterectomies for clinical reasons, they all seem to have been thoroughly informed about the risks beforehand, but if you speak to younger females who've had a hysterectomy for elective reasons... they don't.

informational link

There does seem to be much more of a push for females who wish to transition to have surgery. I wonder how many transwomen are on the waiting list for a surgical procedure?

Those figures are total NHS waiting lists.

According to the linked piece
'Pressure group Transactual says there are about 2,000 people waiting to have the operation in the UK.' (Ie phalloplasty) So the £40 million figure is 20K each to queue dodge.

NHS negligence payments in maternity dwarf whole department budgets.

Death cult.

That's all I can think reading those extracts.

Given that NHS clinics seem very happy to give patients misleading information, it's impossible to see any other reasonable outcome.

I think that surgeons who have realistic views to impart on likely surgery outcomes and unlikely-but-possible outcomes must self-select out of these surgical specialities. The only ones left are either evangelical about the benefits of these procedures, or sociopaths who are willing to lie.

Its not just the cost of the surgery, its the aftercare and further cost when complications occur.

7.1 million people were on the waiting list in October, with 400,000 waiting for more than a year

I could draw two possible hypotheses from those two figures. The first is that the NHS routinely to provide around 6.7m operations per year, and 400k aren't being seen quickly enough.

The second possibility is that there has been a sudden surge in applications - social contagion spreading like wildfire.

I think we all know which is more likely.