Gym agrees to no self ID

offering a space that is safe, welcoming and supportive for all.

By 'all' they mean less than 1% of male humans.

This is bloody Stonewall et al who have convinced half the chattering classes that the EqA has only one characteristic and it has supremacism over everything and everyone else.

This shit has got to go now.

She's been checking with site manager and operations manager a confirmed that there is NO unisex or mixed changing, all changing is single sex only.

Sadly, I wouldn’t trust this. Statements that say there is no unisex or mixed changing are not sufficient. They merely imply that they have separate facilities for women and men. The problem is with the definition they use to dictate exactly who should use each.

The further statement that changing is “single sex only” ought to be reassuring, but even that wouldn’t convince me as the definition of sex can even be corrupted now. I would need a very specific statement saying that they segregate by biological sex, regardless of how individuals identify (or something similarly specific) before I would be convinced their policy is as you want it to be. I suspect, for now, if you did find a man in your changing room and complained, you would probably find yourself initially supported, until it was taken up the chain of command.

Bannatyne has been properly specific on this topic and you know it goes right to the top. I’m not sure whether asking very specific questions in writing might elicit a truthful and sufficiently clear response, but that would be my approach, I think.

This was sept 2020. It was what made me see what was happening.

I got a similar message from David Lloyds:

At David Lloyd Clubs we pride ourselves on offering a space that is safe, welcoming and supportive for all. Along with other operators we follow the advice of our fitness industry body UK Active, who in turn work closely with the EHRC. We would encourage any member to speak with our Club teams to ensure their needs are met.

Do UK Active work closely with the EHRC? I can see no evidence of them working closely with anyone other that Stonewall.

I’ve realised I don’t have them saying it was the law, but they tried to say it in a phone call.
They probably know they are on thin ice. Anyway, I would never go back to them after their gaslighting. And I was a huge fan for 14 yrs who always recommended them.

We do not tolerate anything that puts another’s safety at risk; disturbs the enjoyment, or, impairs the use of a club for other people.

Unless it's a female person who is distressed by being expected to get naked with a strange bloke who has chosen to invoke special protections. Then she can either be disturbed quietly with her impaired enjoyment and risk her safety while providing service to the male's choices and greater power, or she can fuck off.

All hail penises. And posh sounding waffle.

A family membership (4 of us) who had been members 14 yrs meant nothing if a man wanted to get his penis out in front of my daughters.
I actually stated that and the manager had to say yes.

It is a ridiculous response. The general manager of Solihull VA was clear he was told any male could self id into female changing rooms. I am happy for them to dispute this fact.

Well done, OP, for complaining.

This was the rubbish answer head office sent to me. I did try to get more from them. The Solihull general manager actually called me as he was actually on my side and disgusted when I asked if men could get their penises out in front of my 2 daughters (at that time 14 and 6).

I am happy to keep my first name visible. I have removed vA responders name.

Good afternoon Diane,

Many thanks for taking to time to speak with James and to write to us.

We are sorry if you feel we have not addressed your concerns about the safety of female members within our changing rooms. The health and safety of our members and staff is of utmost importance to us and is not the same topic as a transgender member wishing to use the changing rooms and other facilities which corresponds to their gender identity.

We work hard to ensure our clubs are a safe, friendly and a welcoming place to be for anyone.

All members and staff must commit to conducting themselves in a well-mannered fashion when on our premises. We do not tolerate anything that puts another’s safety at risk; disturbs the enjoyment, or, impairs the use of a club for other people.

Any breach of these objectives, by anyone, will lead to termination of membership or employment, as applicable. Our teams are trained in the prevention of risks identified to our members’ health and safety, all complaints we receive are dealt with quickly and firmly with our dedicated Safeguarding team at the forefront of any investigation.

We appreciate this is a sensitive area and it can be complicated, we are an inclusive business, and aim to treat all of our members fairly, appropriately and with respect.

Kind regards

Customer Service Manager

VIRGIN ACTIVE UK
100 Aldersgate Street, London EC1A 4LX

@SleekMamma Until I heard it from central office, I wouldn't be so sure. I can easily envisage a situation in which a logical, common sense GM, who prioritises the safeguarding of women and children in his/her branch, gets thrown under the bus by the central team were they to come under under Twitter fire for chucking a bloke out of the female changing room.

Also, Virgin have got a poor track record on gender ideology, so I'd remain suspicious.

Absolute @nilsmousehammer. I pointed out with unapologetic directness to the General Manager that it would be his job to tell the female who complains about the male in the female changing room that HE, the GM, has DECIDED that the male is in fact female because of his... sports bra, make up and/or long hair.

In short, "Your job is now to gaslight women, pal!" Good luck with that, chum. Sleep easy wontcha?!

That is good to hear. I am swamped with work currently but do you mind if I forward you the email they sent me in sept 20 saying self id was the law. I was gutted to leave after 14 yrs membership.

Isn't it interesting that only one person's happiness matters and directs policy?

And it's the person with the penis.

No one has any problem knowing who is the man and who is the woman. These places are going to have to start acknowledging their policy of male supremacism and sex based discrimination.

That's good news OP I was hoping you would say it was Virgin Active as that's my gym.

Or it would be if I ever went....

I agree. I was a member of virgin for 14 years and cancelled when they told me men could get their penises out in front of my daughters if they self id as women.
i was furious.

This was in a chat this morning with someone from the DL central team, so I'd definitely clarify it with your local branch team and get it passed up if you're unsure.

I signed up because of the 2019 policy/statement. I had that policy/statement confirmed by the local branch Membership Manager when I signed the membership agreement. I then asked the General Manager to confirm it again. He implied the policy was otherwise, so I cancelled my membership. Called by a member of central membership staff to ask why I wasn't paying to which I said I would neither go/pay until the matter was clarified. Then the above is what he told me. So I cancelled my membership. Because I'm not happy changing alongside penises.

I did ask my local David Lloyd and they said it was not self id and they had made males identifying as women leave female changing rooms ( I was told this was a while ago though as there have been no further cases). I did ask several staff members including management.
Definitely need to find out for sure.

Sorry, for some reason that first link doesn't work. Here it is again: inews.co.uk/news/uk/david-lloyd-gyms-trans-gender-certificate-267576

It's quoting from HuffPost UK who appeared to be attempting an exposé on trans-inclusivity: www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/david-lloyd-trans-access-gym_uk_5c825491e4b0d9361626ec6c?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage&guccounter=1